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0:01:22.7 S1: Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Dear romance writer. Today we have an amazing guest for you, came Robert, who is joining us here to talk about sex relationships and whatever happens. Katie, do you wanna tell us a little bit about yourself, where everyone can find you and what your current work in progress is? Yes, I write
0:01:47.0 S2: Dark-ish is dark light or erotic romance made more on... God, it's so good. I hate inbox. For the second one, I'm like, Where is my art seventeen
0:02:01.4 S1: Friend? They even send me the link to the auto-approve stuff yet there, but I got to orbite write a lot of retail-ins and just high high heat. High Shannon high-level bunkers. Yeah, I'm working actually on the third dark Olympus book right now. I'm doing edits. It's Helen Achilles and patrol close. I'm still a little shocked that they let me have Humana, my main traditional series, but you know what? They didn't say we're doing it. So I'm mostly on Twitter, Instagram, and tiktok. I'm bad at demotion, famous mildly in not by any effort on my own, I'm doing okay, but tiktok is doing the tiktok thing like that. It's like a wild beast. It's just... There's no control in it, it just does what it wants. Yeah, so that's just... That's me.
0:02:56.5 S2: I do it full-time. I really like the bonkers stories, so if you pick up a Kate Roberts book, it's gonna be...
0:03:04.9 S1: It might scandalized, hopefully. It'll be a good old hot time.
0:03:11.2 S2: Yeah, yeah, it unviable.
0:03:13.7 S1: You'll have fun.
0:03:15.2 S2: I get a lot of like, I didn't know I was into this king until I wrote this book, and now I think I might be into this... Can get this.
0:03:20.0 S1: And I was like.
0:03:21.5 S2: You are welcome. You're broadening my... Were broadened. Well, welcome, we're happy to have you. Hathaway can help us with this, or pull this letter from, I think hitting the thing and it tells me I must be to edit... I'm like, I don't wanna edit it out, but this latter is interesting, so we didn't have a reader letter or listen to letter this week, so this is your reminder to send some insight to where anonymous people were so gentle and kind, we won't... Like me, think We'll make your first time feel really good. Yes, so this is actually a deer previous letter. So we're going old-school. This week, this is a deer princes letter, and it's from 2013. And I say that because I'm gonna read the letter and then we can chat about it, but I wanna actually talk about the response to the letter, because I think the response was If this letter was received today, even eight years later, it would have been really different at least I hope it would have be really different, male me, me, the letter. So it says I have been seeing a really sweet guy for three months, he is intelligent, fun, considerate and generous.
0:04:31.3 S2: My issue is that he's a virgin and doesn't seem very interested in changing that... We were both in our early 30s. I'm recently divorced. My husband was a compulsive cheat, and I have a two-year-old son, I've discussed sex with James, and he said he originally wanted to wait until marriage for religious reasons, but now it doesn't feel that is necessary. He just wants to be with the right person. We were making out the other night and I Westport to him how much I wanted him. He said he wanted me to, but he sounded awkward, an unconvincing... He always tells me we can't do anything because he doesn't have condoms, but he hasn't made any attempts to purchase some... I can tell these arrows when we kiss, but I'm worried that he just isn't very interested in sex, that would be tough for me to handle long term, is it wrong that I expect our relationship to be further along after three months? My friends say I need a man with more heat and passion, but I am hesitant to pass up an otherwise great guy. Oh, interesting, there are so many places to go with.
0:05:27.9 S2: This is funny, it sounds almost like... It sounds like he's just not that into six... If you wanted to have it, he would have it. At this point, if the religious reasons are not part of the equation, which it sounds like they aren't as much as he sat... Yeah, we got three excuses in there, right, one was religion, two was the right person, which... Okay, if they get there together anyway, and then there was condoms, so he's like... He's just drawing. Excuse. Ibises. Yeah, either he's not ready. It sounds like either he hasn't come to terms with his sexuality or she really isn't the person that he wants to be with it physically for some reason or whatever, there's a lot going on heating on, he's all not being honest with his feeling, maybe he can't face his feelings. That's a thing. Yeah, but she's also... She's got baggage and she's also... I feel like sex is very similar to kids and that it's like if you don't line up, you can't force it, you can communicate and make sure, but if you really don't line up, one person wants a one-person, obviously doesn't like...
0:06:42.2 S2: That's not something... Somebody's gonna be a happy and not get their needs met
0:06:48.0 S1: A... Hey, you guys, I realized we didn't entree ourselves even as... Because we are a group of dumb asses... Hi, I'm DOMA briefly to... Had you guys...
0:07:05.0 S2: I'm CEO exclusion comes as well. I'm done asanas.
0:07:13.1 S1: So there you go. And what's funny you guys laugh, we actually remind ourselves before every episode to do this, and I think we forget 75% of the time
0:07:21.5 S2: When you see each other, and so... Yeah, and our names are there, but 90% of our people are listening to not see that aside
0:07:31.0 S1: Now that you've got names to go with Voices, I think there are several things that come up in this... I think the fact that this letter came out in 2013, I think there was not the communication at that point in time that there is now, at least not in the vanilla Strait community about different types of sexuality, demise, a sexual... Different levels of asexuality. Wherever this person may be. So I think there could be a lack of knowledge part of being able to have the language to explain these feelings, number one, number two, the fact that they use wanting to... He used wanting to wait for marriage also tells me that that may... In addition, what kind of sexual sex attrition has this person had? So there's that. I said earlier that the woman writing the letter had some baggage, and what I meant by that is that if she...
0:08:32.2 S2: And this is something I will harp on a lot, but a lot of times, people who are raised in the United States as women, socialized as women, your desirability is your value. So if she has already seen her desirability rejected by the ex-husband who cheated on her, and then she's got a fiance or boyfriend, I'm ranting a a three months, pretty much. Oh my god, please don't be a headset.
0:09:07.3 S1: Sorry, that's really judge, but I'm just gonna be that person anyways, so if vaping together three months and he is already, whether she can verbalize the fact that she's feeling rejected or not, I'm sure that factors into it, so that makes it become bigger, bigger, but... Yeah, I think Katie is completely right. Sex is one of those things where if you are not able to have your needs met and be upfront about that and align up, that doesn't mean you have to match exactly, but you have to be able to give your partner in the space to be able to have their sexual needs met, but what I get from this is that he is probably on some spectrum of asexuality, and she is having big time rejection desirability issues. I would also be really curious on if she...
0:10:09.1 S2: 'cause there's a lot of instigation of like, Should we be this... And I sort of whispered in his ear like, Are you being very clear and explicit on like This is important to me, this is something... 'cause you're just...
0:10:20.9 S1: I think that's also something in us raised female that you held just know he should just want me all the time, he should just be ready to go all the time, and that's not necessarily how it works in real life, and if you cannot explicitly be like, This is a need of mine, they just... You'd have an explicit conversation, and even if you can't put the verbiage, I'm like, I am this, this... He should still be able to explain his needs, and she should be able to explain her needs and they can see if they match up, and it doesn't sound like they do row and she's singing your song on... I feel like while you're having sex is kind of a while you're trying to initiate Texas about the worst time to try that go both parties feel able to discuss their feelings, conversation about what you desire, and so absolutely. I think they need to have an explicit conversation sometime that is not sexualized moment.
0:11:21.9 S2: That emotion
0:11:22.7 S1: Or a driving some place, but it's like my favorite place to have uncomfortable conversations because you're Trafford, you're trapped and you can't look at each other and you just... One, at least the passenger doesn't have to put the driver hopefully, please God, so just not a conversation that's been gonna make you cry 'cause that could be dangerous, but otherwise it's like my perfect place to have sex talks with the kids, so... Awkward conversations in the car. My kids just do it around the dinner table, they just launch stuff at me that I'm like, Oh, sure. I will explain how piston works. Okay, that was the most recent question that I'm like. I'm very happy that you feel comfortable enough to ask me this, none of them are active, but they have questions and I'm like, I'm just gonna turn into the color of a poet, I'm gonna answer this is technically as possible, but... Yeah, the car would be so much better. I take random drives. Anyway, sorry, wrong, I did that. So no, I like it. She could terrify him by being like, so I wanna talk about fasting, and then out of it... In back, I just have a little conversation about that.
0:12:32.3 S1: Well, I also... Eter, sorry to second worst ever, but I also wonder if who had some sexual trauma as well, elche can feel him becoming physically around, that's one thing, but physical Ross, not consent, physical ASL does not imply emotional or mental fire for SETI, think that it would be a mistake for her, complete those two, and that just makes it maybe a slightly more complicated conversation, but definitely something that she needs to talk about, especially because three months into a relationship is still... I'm sure they shot at, but that's still like... If you have a major incompatibility like Katie, that's still well within the debt to fuck out eatery to make a huge relationship work for years and years, and leaders, if you're going into it already with this major and capability.
0:13:30.7 S2: And if they've been together for three months, he's started 30 years old and he's never had sex as far as he knows, so there's definitely... All the excuses He's throwing at her could be him covering up for some past trauma, for some past insecurity or some current insecurity that he has, maybe he just could never... You go through life, especially in America, it's like... All the movies tell you're supposed to have sex when you're like 16, 17, 18 years old in high school or whatever, and that doesn't happen, then you get to college and it doesn't happen there, and you just keep going and it never happens, and it's not because you don't want to is because I just never had the opportunity. So here he is in this relationship, he could just be freaking out, Oh, that's a good point of... She has a kid, she's obviously has experience and I don't have experience if we do this then, but if it's awful for her and then she dumps me and she don't see... Yeah.
0:14:22.4 S1: And then... You supposed to know what he's doing. So I just wrote this book, which is really funny, that my most recent book is about a guy who... He's demise Al, but he definitely was interested in sex, that he... When he was 17 or 18, he had an experience, but then his parents died and he was suddenly running the family business, raised on his little brother, he had so much responsibility that she just wasn't thinking about sex at all, then all of his friends and peers went off and started doing these things, but he was doing adult things, and before he knew it, it was like all that time for experimentation had passed, and he found himself in his 30s being like, This is the thing that I'm supposed to know how to do. I suppose to know what I want, and it's embarrassing, but I don't now... Or embarrassing, but I don't really know what I want or how I want it. And you know, I'll tell you what I had them doing that, but maybe this person can be in that book, is this... 'cause I would like to at orientable in the... There's a cat, a high on at...
0:15:29.6 S1: I love the fluid. I've been watching your walk around with a big fluffy to... Yeah, globally, it's called Best lay plans, and basically it's like the character who is more experienced turns the questioning about sex, about what the other character wants into not a... But a conversation where it's very removed from sex and it's just a check-off list, but of course in the process of talking about it, they get very turned on thinking about all the things that they could do to each other, and it's a way of letting this person who's never really had sex, give a hard yes or no or a maybe I'm interested to every possible thing, and then they have a clear place to start because it's not like... We'll just jump right into that. Or sex. And see how you like it. It's like, No, I mean, do you think it's sexy to make out... Do you need to get sexy to make out and have me touch your chest, so it's like incremental things that at each phase give the person who's more experienced a sense of what his partner is interested in, and so I feel like there is a reason we started this as a romance writer advice show is I think that there are so many ways to work through issues with relationships and sex that we've had a lot of experience writing in so many different versions, and so I'm amused that I read this letter and I didn't even think about the fact that I had just written this, you just on it, that...
0:16:57.3 S1: 'cause that also always the ground work for some really clear boundaries of consent and comfort levels for everybody involved, and there's so much media that's like, you should just know or you should just do this, and this is the destination that you're working towards as a default, and it's like, but it's not like that for a ready... And being able to talk that with a trusted person that like you care about in a safe space is so valuable and it's more rare than it should be, and I feel like it's one of those things where it be a regular thing to... It isn't something that you negotiate once, especially if you get together and you're in your 20s, that it's 15 years later and people's tastes have changed, desires have changed, so I feel like it's an awesome practice no matter where... Even if you're not dating someone who's a virgin who you don't know what they want, that's like a great State of the Union.
0:17:53.3 S2: State of the State union as a rotate of the union
0:17:56.2 S1: To
0:17:56.9 S2: Ray, have an episode where we had, I think... And you may give the advice of them having an anniversary... Tradition has a checklist. Yeah.
0:18:08.6 S1: Thank you. Like, I'm such a nerd about this stuff, but I really feel like so strongly about the fact that emotions and relationships require this kind of check-in and upkeep, just any... Just like do with your doctor, your lawyer, or you have to do the grocery shopping 'cause it's like the ingredients actually run out... Unfortunately, you don't just get to do it once. And it's like magic, and I think that that's true of the AI know. It's supposed to be like... I know we think of sex in a different category because it's supposed to... There's this one narrative, the baritone narrative that it's spontaneous and both people are always in the mood for the same thing at the same time, and... Sure, that sometimes happens, but I think much more often, you kinda have to decide it's a menu, like making dinner or going on vacation or any other thing that it depends on your mood and what your physical capability is in your energy level and all these things and so I feel like it is this major check-in that should be had often is, what's your sex deal right now... Interesting, that's what the checklist should be called, and I think you need to make it up on sale, what's your sex deal right now, and then there could just be a checklist items...
0:19:22.8 S1: I would be into that. Yeah, I simulate. Fundamentalist me. There you go, there. You could just come through the app, not only you're kidding, but I also 100% do this because you don't understand my love, may I even say lust for listeners, our shocked face.
0:19:46.5 S2: The other side of this is, there's also this reluctance when you meet someone and you click on all of these different things, except for the one thing to try to hold on, even though you know it's a deal breaker for you, which is what she's doing. She probably knows what's going on here, but she's looking for any kind of way that she can fix that one thing, because in all other ways, he's great for her, so I think permission to walk away from something that's not working for you, just because even people who are in relationships, sometimes feel like they're failing when the relationship ends, especially in marriages, they feel like they've failed something, so I think giving yourself permission to walk away from a situation that you know is gonna cause heartache in the future is something that we do. And
0:20:35.9 S1: I keep going, just like you said, the deal breaker, the deal breaker for each person are different, but... And it maybe it sounds like this is a deal break for her, but if it's not, they need to figure that out, is like... Yeah, because it's trying to cram like, Oh well, he's perfect in this way, except for this thing that's gonna make me miserable. Our entire relationship, right. And it's not anything as him, it's just you're not compatible there, and they're so wrong, but
0:21:04.1 S2: It feels like has to make a blame thing like, Well, we had to have a reason we broke up because he was awful or whatever, or I did this thing, and it's like, No, it's just... You just don't match up that well, that's
0:21:14.8 S1: Okay. Yeah, well, and I think you hit it. So when you're talking about the fact that what this is right here, this is the... I wouldn't say You've read flag in the relationship, I would say definitely yellow flag, that it's something that you've gotta step back really look at, figure out, is this a deal breaker for me? Is it's not... And it doesn't have to be sex. It can be a million and a half things, if you're like... You know what? He's perfect in every way. But he's an asshole. To waiters and waitresses. Yeah, that's an indicator of like that's a red flag that... And so that right there though, again, is something you've gotta sit back and say, Okay, well, am I awesome that sold, or am I a different kind of HASSELL, because everybody's an asshole in their own way, so that's really what you have to look at is... It doesn't have to be sex. And honest to God, I think there's more going on here with as far as from his end of things, because he is reluctant, he is reluctant to verbalize the reactants. I think that also tells you something.
0:22:26.9 S1: So even if this guy is just completely fails rate up petro as possibly could be completely... Exactly what you would expect a Brentwood, an American dude to be like. Right, but you can't verbalize any of that stuff, that also tells you, Okay, when other things make him uncomfortable, for whatever reason, you're not gonna be able to verbalize that either, so is this something we can work through and we can grow from, or am I going to be spending the rest of my life trying to get somebody to... I mean, this is a joke, but close the shower curtain and he's never gonna close it, or it could also be that she did something that made him feel like... Or that she acted or spoke and maybe not even intentionally in a way that made him feel like he doesn't feel safe bringing up like this or whatever, 'cause it is a two-way street, and it might be that he maybe made a comment or... I try to feel her out and then I felt like she shut him down there, when you have it only from one side, it's kind of hard to be
0:23:35.8 S2: Years.
0:23:38.3 S1: I'm trying to know what the advice was... Sorry, Ronnie, I'm killing it on it, that's a... The point that we actually don't know yet whether this is a sex problem or communications problem... Right, they're both big in different ways, but I actually feel like the communication problem would be a bigger deal breaker potentially 'cause it's about everything, so the conversation...
0:24:02.7 S2: Yeah, the original response, and I don't usually read the comments or responses on these things that we do because I don't wanna color my... Whatever, but the first line grabbed my attention where I said, I don't have a condom, is the dog ate my homework of lifetime of the lifetime version A.
0:24:23.0 S1: It's a great line, and I thought That's a great...
0:24:24.8 S2: What a horrible thing to say.
0:24:26.8 S1: I just... ARISA, but the dog really does get your homework sometimes.
0:24:34.2 S2: But the letter responder uses words like sexual hang out and things like that, and I'm like, Wow, 2013 was really un-enlightened and references the film, The 40-Year-Old Virgin, and I'm like, but the thing that she didn't say was, figure out if this is a thing you can live with, if this is a person you're really deeply in love with, and this is the one area where you guys don't click... Can you live with that rather than saying, Well, dump him kind of thing, if it doesn't work out, if you can't get this excellent on the same sex page on dampening of thing, and I was like, Wow, this is so not what anyone would say, Well, hopefully, I do I wanna say right now, we...
0:25:14.2 S1: It comes down to me, you can be... Sexual incompatibility is a huge... Can be a huge problem within a relationship, absolutely, but it's also in how you approach that sexual incompatibility, and we've talked about this a lot, it could be the open relationship, it could be one-sided, it can be... You know what, it's Tuesday at 0 PM, and that's my masturbation type. So I love you by... There's a million different ways to...
0:25:44.5 S2: Exactly.
0:25:46.0 S1: It's what you wanna bring to that, but if... Yeah, if your way of wanting to do that is, Hey, I only wanna do P-N-TV every Tuesday at 8-30 PM, and if that can't happen, then
0:26:01.5 S2: You don't... You feel more enlightened now than 2013.
0:26:07.6 S1: 'cause you were a time more informed... What's so much more, even in just...
0:26:16.7 S2: 'cause my older children are changers and the conversations they're having in the burger page and the terminology that they have is stuff that I'm like, I don't even Berea knew what bisexual was when I was in high school, and they're like, Oh yeah, my friend. A sexual in Baba blah, and it's like they're able to speak these truths and test out and figure out where they are, and it's fine, which is so amazing that we've come so far in a relatively short amount of time, it's a shop that adults will get there too, is it the knowledge doubles every 20 years or something like that? Is that the statistics?
0:26:57.7 S1: I have not heard that. It does, that makes sense.
0:27:00.9 S2: Yeah, yeah.
0:27:02.3 S1: I think for some of us it does a... Iwate opposite, sorry. Yeah, yeah, no, it's really interesting 'cause I went to college in their early 90s, so that was just a completely different time, if you wanna talk about what was socially sexually acceptable and what was not, so even like 20 years ago. If you think of some of the comedies that came out, some of those songs that were on the radio, the way that people... It was just...
0:27:41.2 S2: Can you imagine like lines X coming out with montara or any of his stuff, like 20 years ago or 10 years ago even.
0:27:49.6 S1: And even the conversations as simple as consent didn't exist back then, easily look at the 16 candles and it's like.
0:28:02.1 S2: Oh, all the changes maybe like those discussions come...
0:28:05.4 S1: Eternity was straight up rape. Okay, in the early, early in the 90s, the teen movies and stuff, they were Cockle of stuff that you're like, Oh, that note. And we were all totally good with that, Heather, what is the best... Sorry, I will stick with that. Go into the frat party scene where it's been a while, but I remember watching it with my daughter a while back and being like, Holy shit, which is pretty much everything you watched from the 80s era.
0:28:39.3 S2: Close, yeah, the scene where he's under the table, Ying U at the table, even then I was like, uncomfortable, laugh, and now I'm like, Oh my God, I can't believe they did that on screen, and that was supposed to be like... In theory or something?
0:28:52.9 S1: Yeah, I went to a five customer at her eight, I'm going to move us all to something that is not quite forever, but is interesting. Well, I don't know the Internet's forever, so... Alright, so we have... Or what would you do segments... And we pulled this from a Reddit query, and so we're excited to take a look at this one, here it goes, It says, My girlfriend, 29 female told me 35-year-old male that she was an adult film star before we met... My girlfriend and I have been together for two years, nearly two weeks ago on our second anniversary, I proposed to her and she said, yes, it was a great night with great generals grade sex. The next morning she was acting strange and said... She even tell me something, if you read the title and then you can guess what she told me before she met me, she made some adult movies, she said she wanted to tell me many times over the past two years of honesty and transparency, she was worried because she had told guys in the past and they didn't want anything serious from her and... Or just broke up with her.
0:30:04.2 S1: She said she was worried that I would only want her for sex and nothing else, and she says that she never felt this way about a man before, she said she made the films to earn money to start her own online business, and when it took off, she quit the industry. Another reason she wanted to tell me is that she was worried a friend who were relative or even strange or might recognize her. I get that. But nothing has ever happened. So part of me is wondering why she told me now, the only question I asked is if she's still in touch with anyone from those days, she said She is Facebook friends with a few other women, but No guys and no one, she ever made a phone... I'm honestly too scared to ask more questions, don't waste your time by calling me in secure or anything like that, it's not helpful, and if all you can do is be condescending and just keep it to yourself, I don't want to break up over this, we have... So much fun together in every aspect of our lives, we've plenty of things in common that we enjoy doing together, and we have the same sense of humor, and yes, the sex is amazing, but I can't seem to get the image out of my head.
0:31:05.9 S1: I don't know if talking about it with her when we get better or worse, will confirm what I'm already thinking or put new ideas in my head, she can tell that this is weighing on me and she seems very apprehensive and anxious about what I will decide to do, like I said, we have a great relationship and I don't wanna break up. But how do I move past this? So I stop thinking about it.
0:31:31.5 S2: I answered the first question, she told you because you asked her to marry, but Marianne doesn't wanna keep that big of a secret from you, and it's also a confirmation that you don't just want her for sex, that you want to spend the rest of your life with her, which is like makes her feel safe enough to tell you, which is a good thing
0:31:51.5 S1: Here, the shock of somebody finding out that their partner had people before that, you know, I don't understand why that's always such a block for some folks, whether it's... This could easily be somebody saying, You know what, my girlfriend, my boyfriend, whomever, had an only fans, it could be they just did amager that they uploaded on newborn, it could be sugar daddy pictures or whatever it may be, you know, there's a million things. Or it could just be, you know what, she told me her roster and she had 100 names on that.
0:32:33.1 S2: It could be whatever, may be that thing that... That pushes you over, but I put it, but the vast majority of or not of us are not the first people with our other person, number one.
0:32:45.3 S1: And that's a benefit, honestly, because it allows you to experiment and figure out what you like and don't like, and that you take that knowledge into any new relationship you're in, and it makes it easier for the person or with... Because you're like, No, I can say that I do not like that. I do like this, I will enjoy this. We can have a good time doing this. How is that a bad thing? Yeah, I had such a clear and one-sentence response to this letter, which was like, This is a you problem, broke really is the same. In the letter, he loves her and they have a great time together. He's not jealous. Exactly, and then he's like, I just can't stop thinking about it. And I'm like, cool, you know what I do when I can't stop thinking about it. I deal with my shit. Go to their... Write out a list of what are the things that that thinking about it entails like, this is not a problem with your fiance, this is not a problem about your relationship, this is the problem about you being socialized as someone who doesn't know how to deal with when you can't stop thinking about something, which is, I feel like that's code for like...
0:33:51.9 S1: I'm having a feeling. What do I do? Go to therapy. Talk to someone. Journal it out. Take a warm bath. I don't know, I just... I hate for this, that this is how I feel when people are... When people ask What... Send you an email to ask you a question that they just could have gold in which Obote whole day, I guess what I have just saved us all a lot of time, and just if you just don't like your own problem without involving me.
0:34:20.2 S2: I send to people I like it
0:34:21.5 S1: When you are not a new... Is my favorite Road?
0:34:26.3 S2: Let me Google that for you. Dot com, which is the real time, by the way, but
0:34:29.9 S1: You know what, I think it just, it shows what a fucked up relationship that we as Americans have with sex.
0:34:37.3 S2: I'm assuming this American that's just sounds like a better with sex work in particular, because it's like... It doesn't matter if she had made one film, he would still be flipping out like this, if that was the only person she had been with before him, and she had made one single film, he would still be having the same emotional, like hyper-focus reaction because sex work is so stigmatized. Amplify is the feeling of like, well, they were with some to before me, it makes it so much more so
0:35:07.9 S1: That definitely went and watched some of those films...
0:35:10.5 S2: 100%. Yeah.
0:35:12.8 S1: I can't say I'm thinking about it. I guess I'm just gonna have to watch it and I punch myself in the chest a few times like, Oh, and it's at... Or he watched it, we enjoyed watching it and not freaked him out and even more, I would believe that it's also like people who do sex work, it's not about sex, it's about Mark. Yeah, I think that there's something... So I totally agree with what everyone has said about, it's good that we're not all virgins when we meet our people because we know what we want, but I'm also like this, your fiance wasn't having sex with people because she wanted that sense with them, she was having such with them for money as a totally viable mode of work, so I think about what your problem is, and if your problem is about the sex part, I would say that transactional sex is as related to loving relationship sex as rape is to loving relationship Exeter of them are about... Except, sorry, that's actually a bad example because of course, you're choosing to work then you're consenting to do that, so that's not a good example, but...
0:36:19.8 S1: They're just both. Not about sex within a relationship. Right, it's not the same thing at all.
0:36:26.6 S2: So, well, I love that he opens with, Don't call me insecure 'cause bad, that's what you are.
0:36:32.3 S1: Is a one thing I can understand being weird it out by it to a estate on it
0:36:40.0 S2: Now from someone for... For two years, yeah. That's a bit... Also.
0:36:44.1 S1: I think at... You said this, and I think this was such a nail on the head, this is an ultimate compliment, she trusted you enough after all, after seeing so much low back in past relationships where she was honest, she trusted you enough to do this and to share this part of herself with you and she's anxious as hell, of course she is because you're acting like a weirdo also
0:37:13.9 S2: Really dislike the... She's very anxious while she decides raided what I am going to do, I feel like that power element is not super great. Yeah, yeah, in...
0:37:24.0 S1: She submitted her case to be tried...
0:37:26.8 S2: Yeah, he says, I don't wanna break up on it, he wants to move forward with the marriage, I'm assuming, but that marriage is gonna fail spectacularly unless he deals with this... Unless he goes to therapy, unless they talk it out, if he want... He said, he's afraid to talk to her, either. Talk to her, talk to someone else like festering and it is...
0:37:46.2 S1: That will just come up every time I have a retrofit, the hibernian, her faith, everything, but I'm just really... I'm so mad at people who won't go to therapy this week, I feel like every week I have a thing, and this week my thing is people who obviously need to go to therapy and won't go to therapy, and I'm like, Cool. So you realize that all of us as a use all need to go to the Y every...
0:38:14.4 S2: But now everyone really does a therapist
0:38:17.9 S1: Or Hey, whatever people have refused to go to therapy, I'm just always cool, so you're making everything harder for the rest of us think that's your decision to not go to through therapy means that you are choosing to make the lives of every single person then you would interact with for the rest of your life harder... Thanks, bud, but also you're making a hard of yourself, you want to be with this person, you obviously care deeply enough for her to propose and wanna spend the rest of your life with her, why would you not take all the tools possible to work through this hang up, you have, so that you can move forward with this person you can deeply care about and not saboteur relationship.
0:38:52.2 S2: You read... It's not the therapist. No, yeah, a lot of people treat it as if it is, I'm gonna go crowdsource this solution and see if you see somebody can...
0:39:03.3 S1: When that's a Ocelot out of proportion
0:39:05.9 S2: Too, and...
0:39:07.2 S1: 'cause you're either searching for something to indicate what you feel or you give all these voices in your head and then you're like, Oh, I definitely should break up with her because of... And that's not what you wanted, because that's what... What Bob I? Three to four, five. That I should do it. But I do love though, that our two letters this week are exactly the same, they really are, they are looking at that issue of I is same on two signs of the same coin when it comes to sex. Either they're not gonna have... They don't seem to want it with me, or want it at all, or this person has had so much without me, and that makes me uncomfortable, I think we have huge hang-ups when it comes to sex as a culture, as a community, and God, maybe that will be what happens with the next 20 years. That will be the one that they'll get in the next 20 years, so our grand-kids will be like, good sex. We got that figured out. Yeah, I hope so. That would be... So too.
0:40:15.3 S2: It's such a huge... It's been such a stigma, stigmatized thing for centuries, 'cause it wasn't like that, and then it was... And it is in the long oatmeal
0:40:31.5 S1: And with this... With this dude, with Mr. 35-year-old, right? If this is a deal breaker for him, he needs to treat her with the same respect and appreciation that she misplaced with Him by being upfront about it. I hesitate, I cannot get over this Boland, it may be something to where, you know what, maybe he needs to look at himself and say Is this is gonna be something that I'm gonna obsess over and I'm too over for three months.
0:41:09.5 S2: And I know me, I'll realize after three months, but a dumbass Am or is this gonna be something where, like you said, it's gonna be brought up in every fight they have, it's gonna be this, it's gonna be that. And if it's a deal breaker, then he just needs to be honest and say, Hey... But that's a deal breaker for me. Yeah, I don't know that he... Maybe he's self-aware enough to make that call, but I don't... From that, I don't know that he is aware enough to be like, Yes, this is definitely a breaker, more like I'll just obsessively think about this, I don't see what composition he's asking how to deal with it. Which is admirable. I'm glad that he recognizes that he needs to deal with it, 'cause some people will just be like, Well, I'm Simon's fine, it's fine, and they fester and to... He just asking the wrong place, but there's nothing in here about, I'm gonna talk to someone as a professional about it, I'm here talking to the internet... Well.
0:42:09.2 S1: And it seems like he's also asking the wrong question, at least what I get from a letter is he's asking how do I deal with it as the it is like this cloud that's now hanging over my relationship as opposed to How do I deal with my reaction to it.
0:42:26.2 S2: Yeah, those are two very different things.
0:42:30.5 S1: They are... And again, why therapy is so, so useful is that in whatever form he wants to try to address it, is that he needs to learn that he is actually the one who's in charge of what he decides to think about things and not read it and not external circumstances and that just because he had one initial reaction, it doesn't mean that that has to be his reaction forever, and it sounds something like he's coming from this place where he feels really, really out of control, he feels out of control because a secret was kept from him, and then he goes out of control because of the content of the secret, and now he's making himself feel further out of control by being like, I keep thinking about this thing, which he's framing as a negative, but it is neutral, thinking about Something's not necessarily bad, and then he's like, How do I stop thinking about... Or, how do I deal with it? How do I... Whatever it's like, Well, yeah.
0:43:23.2 S2: And the thing is, is he has to deal with it himself, but also his... Him not talking to her about it is not necessarily a good thing because I mean, if he can't talk to her without it being a healthy, non-harmful conversation, that's one thing, and that's fair to be like, my emotions are too tumultuous. I can't talk about this with you right now.
0:43:44.3 S1: But never talking about... They're gonna have to have at least another conversation or two
0:43:50.1 S2: On the road, you're saying it's two weeks ago, so it's still relatively shy, but hopefully... Yeah, he can say, Okay, once the initial shock and my initial reaction like our own said, has subsided, let's have a conversation. Tell me how you got started, tell me a typical day on the set or whatever it is that will get him out of the mindset of this was a passionate thing as opposed to this was a clinical... They put my leg, I needed to go, kind of thing, which happens on the film set.
0:44:21.7 S1: There are 10 people in the room and they were comfortable angles.
0:44:24.6 S2: Yeah, and it's hot and sweaty and
0:44:26.8 S1: Hot, it doesn't make it any better for him if she's like, I hated it, it was horrible the whole time, or if she did this and she's like, Yeah, I was a trooper, a job, I knew that I enjoyed it. You should enjoy work. She's like, Yeah, I enjoyed it, but yeah, it was just a temporary for me, you know what, I worked at Dairy Queen and can make the hell of a Sunday. I enjoyed it while I was there. It doesn't mean that it doesn't ensure... Worse than anything else.
0:44:56.1 S2: Yeah, hopefully she'll be honest about it and not like cater to whatever she thinks his feelings. Right. Yeah, Roman always as talking is a good way to start to into someone who knows what what they were talking about.
0:45:12.5 S1: Okay, thank you so much for being with us today to talk about not having sex, and then your partner having sex and then being stuck up about it. So we really appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. This is fun.
0:45:28.7 S2: We're a ham. Like I said, Instagram Twitter, it's Katie with two escort Noa, and on tiktok is author Kate Roberts fell that same way. And that's where I am most of the time. What's coming... What's coming out next for you, is it a dot... It is the bastards betrayal, which is the first book in my second generation mob series that's like... It's like a follow-up to the male series, and it's their adult children and it's got... The heroin shoots the hero twice in the first chapter.
0:46:04.0 S1: And then he responds by being like, I love you so much, I'm gonna kidnap you until you agree to marry me on... It's a lot of fun to eat. Discussion, they definitely, they definitely are like... They are okay communicating though, she's like, You couldn't have to be, and he's like, That's practically a love language in your family, which is fair enough. It's a rough.
0:46:29.4 S2: It's a good time.
0:46:31.1 S1: I love it. Thank you so much, we really appreciate you being here. Yeah. Okay, so for this re-express it, so I spent the last week in Michigan with my family, and it was my sister's birthday, and so she requested for me to make dinner... I did it a anything, and it was summer and we were around a bunch of farm stands and stuff, so what I ended up making as a side dish is the salad that I'm now obsessed with, it's a water my and salad. So you get a huge nice ripe water, non-chunk it up, and then you crumble in some dried in dry-ish cheese. So I use the farmers cheese 'cause we were near a bunch of the farmsteads that you could use, but you could use any sort of Baltic style or depressed cheese, so it's not super lottery, so you crumble in a tanabe or pharmacies and then you add fresh herbs basal mint parsley. What else did I do? I think that's a basement and personally a lot of Basel though, and mix it all together and it's amazing, it's so good. It has the favorites of the parsley and the salt from the cheese, and then the sweetness of the watermelon and the basal, and this great freshness of the Mint, it's so simple.
0:48:00.5 S1: Cutting up the water now is the thing that took the longest to... Elena takes five minutes and I ate an entire water homework.
0:48:10.7 S2: So delicious water. One is interesting, I saw a recipe, or not a recipe, but a thing where someone did what I'm ministers on the grill where they brushed it with Walton menteri Olivo And then grilled it. It's an interesting too.
0:48:24.4 S1: I love more, and I feel like it is because it's such a... We think of it as like, just eat it plain in the summer 'cause it... You... Whatever, I feel like it's not used in as many different ways as a lot of the other fruits that we have, but it's so good and tender and is such an interesting kind of spongy texture that's unlike most other food.
0:48:46.7 S2: A watermelon has a particular history in the United States at ITSM, people just stay away from it for different reasons, but it's de-legs.
0:48:56.9 S1: I love it. I'm gonna try to... Thai actually got a water main in my garden is her... I had one and so cut and I was like waiting, I'm looking it up. I'm like, When do I know to pick it... It's like when the little curly q writing turns brown and you know, it's done. So I've been like, I was out there every other day, and then we had a huge storm and I went out and I don't know if it got blown, if something got knocked into it, it cracked and then it was filled with Antonio much water. That's what happens to tomatoes if you get a big... Eater is a itis tragic. Thank you for being horrified at... I was so proud and so excited.
0:49:46.8 S2: Of watermelon. No dice.
0:49:48.8 S1: I did wanna report back to the class, so in the recipe section and my garden with my cucumber or...
0:49:54.3 S2: Yes, yes, yes. Did you make all the peoples in the world...
0:49:57.1 S1: I have not made pickles yet, I need to, but I keep never being off deadline, so cucumber slices, do cheese, a little bit of some of the dried basal from the garden, like I tried my own, like I just hung it. So it's super fresh, dried basal and then half a cherry tomato squashed on top.
0:50:22.1 S2: Perfect. It was so good. Y'all.
0:50:24.7 S1: It was so good. So I'm highly suggested, yeah. Kimberly conceded and Tracy lips also live in my area, and we had an outdoor girls evening of wine and food, and we devoured that, so it wasn't just me, I have multiple... Mortally wound yourself in the process of creating the stitch is a... Myself, there were no partitioning this food, I didn't have to use a mandolin 'cause they were thick chunks of slices, so... Yeah, it was all good. So there you go. So I will add to the cucumber recipe card. There you go.
0:51:05.3 S2: Nice. Well, turning to music for this week was a little tongue in-cheek with this play list, but the first song on it is from Jane Jackson, a throw back, let's wait a while, and it was a terror on Virgin del Stand So Close To Me from the police is on there? Not your girl from TRS in City Girls on Film is a nod to our second... Yeah, what would you do? Seats got a little dragon, I've gotten most... Somebody on here, I live here, rego, metric, foster the people. It's a really fun, eclectic and fun and playlist. As you guys, let me know what you see as.
0:51:49.5 S1: Yes. Well, for recommendations, this week, I had a TV show that Mr. Len and I liked it, but it's not my recommendation, but I'm gonna tell you about it anyway, it's called Dead water fell, and it is on Amazon Prime and it's that David Tennant in it, and he's got his usual... He's got his actual Scotian lease, I'm assuming this is his role on... And I don't know about the different dialects in the Scottish Jackson, I'm sorry. But it is four episodes, and it is a, what I would call a domestic thriller, abutte. There are a lot of things in there though that I was screaming at my TV about, so I don't give it a firm recommendation, but I found it entertaining and I can't help but love David tent, 'cause he's my favorite doctor who... And I just love him. So there you go.
0:52:49.5 S2: My recording, the next doctor is going to be... Or
0:52:53.0 S1: I have no opinion on that. I have watched it in a couple of seasons, or a couple of doctors, I should say, I have not watched the past two doctors. My recommendation for this week though, is another podcast, which I remember as we were doing this, it was recommended to me. It is called Wine and crime. Oh, and it is so much fun, you guys... It's not even funny how fun it is here, it's funny how fun it is, it is called Wine and Crime, it is these three friends who obviously have known each other since the dawn of time, they've got these really thick Minnesota accents, so it's really fun. Talos into that. But they break it up, they have a wine that they drink or something else, alcoholics that they drink throughout the episode, hence wine and crime, and then they pick a theme, so it's not like a true crime podcast where they follow a case all the way through each episode has a theme. So for example, one of the past episodes, which is a theme I never would have thought about, it was quite crime choir, C-H-O-I-R.
0:54:07.0 S1: And so the first segment, they basically give you the history of something, or in this case, sort of like the history of piers and what they do and different kinds of choirs and all that stuff. Right, and then they need to know what was the homophones for hire that made you sell it, because I can't figure out what it was would be... I don't know, I think it... You're Nebraska and I have a funny accent and sometimes for the like what... But no, I wouldn't say choir. Maybe like prior, Donohoe.
0:54:38.3 S2: Who are on
0:54:39.2 S1: The task. What am I missing? Maybe in my family, we always spell the word choir... Alright, stop judging me. So then the second two segments are each one of the other two friends talk about a specific crime that fits under that theme, and it's really fun, they drop, I wanna say once a week. It's very interesting, it's not super gory, but yeah, you can definitely... I think that the most fun part about it is you could definitely tell that these hosts have known each other for a firm, and they give each other shit, and so it's just quite a music and I enjoyed it. So there you go. So that's my recommendation line and cry.
0:55:31.9 S2: I wanna tune in just so I can learn about quiet crime as many Corsair with solos when solos are handed out, but at
0:55:39.7 S1: A... Well, tell you that episode. It had a child sexual abuse in there, so morning on that specific episode, just so know and made me want to punch things and people... Yes, but it's still very good. This week episode, I just started, and it's called bad bones, and it's about phones and crime, and I have not gotten to the criminal aspect of it, I was just learning about the ones here. Okay, cool. Do you wanna thin... If you want, I depress. You guys know.
0:56:21.2 S2: I don't like to rock books that aren't out yet, usually because it's unfair, but I have such a book hangover from this... It's the third book in cronies series. Technically the fourth book, because she had like a novella after the first one, and every time I read Priest... I think I told you guys the story when I met Sierra, we had a long conversation and she was under her real name, and we were talking about tumbler of all things, and then we were like, Oh my God, I should follow... You should follow me. And we started to exchange information and then she's like, Yeah, but I don't write under this name, my right under her son, and I just dropped everything that was in my hand. I was like, Oh my God, you're rapist. So I think I'm responsible for 100 000 companies of press being sold. So it's a fantastic book. It was one of those books I picked up, I think it was like 99 cents at the time, and it was like this... I hate this premise, how... Cause I'm gonna write... This premise was ridiculous. And then I got sucked into the story and read it six times and was like, How did she make me love this? And Book Two, it's about a priest named Tyler Bell, and then book to as his brother Sean, who falls for a soon to be none.
0:57:34.3 S2: And book three is the one that's coming out, I think September 7th. Yeah, and I love the bell, brothers are all tortured here as I love my tortured heroes, I love my broken heroes, but on this book, seriously broke me, I think Sierras gift in is that she is a way to... She writes really high heat, and she found a way with this series to marry the sacred with the profane, and to examine the relationship between God and sex and stuff, and this book also deals with depression in a way that I haven't seen in a book before, especially in Romans, and I had to stop in places because it was too close to home. Do you know what I mean? And I fell in love with this character, he's really, really, really, really flawed, all of these guys deal with guilt in their own way, they're all dealing with guilt in the wrong way, they're all dealing with issues, but Aden is a character that's gonna stick with me for a really long time, and I don't wanna go too much into the plot because it's just... I don't know how it goes on her mind to just sit down and bigger brain sometimes, but...
0:58:45.9 S2: Yeah, but the book is called Saint, and it comes out September 7th, and I cannot recommend this series highly enough, it is nothing... There's nothing else out there like this series is... It really is it.
0:58:57.7 S1: My favorite thing... Well, not my favorite thing. There are many things. So about SARS men.
0:59:02.6 S2: But
0:59:03.0 S1: One of my favorites is that... She literally looks like a little cherub. Is what the duplicate? Yeah, you're Eeyore, like butter does not melt in your mouth, she is just like... You look at her and then you're like, Wait, you... You wrote that. Yeah, that's why when I met her and we were talking and I'm like, Wait, you, that you... Yeah, I love that, I love that. That it's not a conflict at the DIA, the dichotomy of that super sweet, innocent looking woman and the fabulously sometimes dark and gritty and sexy and deep books that she writes.
0:59:50.9 S2: I mean... Yeah, there was reading this book, this is her at the pinnacle of what I think of when I think it was The rosenborg, is this... Yeah. Gosh.
1:00:02.4 S1: That's really high price. Yeah, I haven't read that series yet, but the new Camelot books, I was in New York, once I was staying, I was sleeping on my cousin's couch and we gotten back from wherever we were, and I was like, Oh, I'll just be reading for a little while to Middays later or in the morning, and I was literally buffing my stops with my own hands so that I wouldn't wake up my cousin and his family and have them... I'll be like, What is wrong with you? But I was too. Holy fuck. Yeah.
1:00:42.7 S2: What's even more scary for me about this book is that the audio was coming and I know who's narrating it, and that's good, I'm gonna listen to it, but it's gonna break me all over again. Nice. I'm like.
1:00:56.4 S1: Really, you're gonna do this to me. And she's like, Yes, we'll have to have her on the show to talk about her wicked to God. You definitely should, yeah. So my rep and I just realized my computer was sitting off of both... That I could show it to you is survive the night
1:01:16.1 S2: One of the core.
1:01:19.1 S1: Do you have a two in the States? I'm really looking forward to it. They will not spoil anything, I promise is what should get it. Isaias wonderful. I have lived all of his books and I would love to be like I could talk forever about which ones were my favorites and why, but I think that the concept of this... What I usually think about his books are that the concepts are usually very simple, and it's the execution that really makes them... I think that he is just such a smart writer, and so the concept of this movie is that it's a... Wait, hold on a second. Did you actually say in a title of the book, I'm not sure if you did, I think we got too excited... Sorry, had Catlin. So sorry, I forget what Dr. It's called survive a night by Riley singer, and it just came out like last month, maybe it's his... I wanna see his fifth or sixth book, and in it, the premise is that it's set in at a small college in the early mid-90s, and the main character has just... Her best friend and roommate has just been murdered before the book opens, and she's having a really hard time dealing with it, and so she decides that she's gonna leave you before the end of...
1:02:38.0 S1: Before winter break and go back home, she lives with her... Or lived with her grandmother, because she just is not doing well, and so it starts off with her meeting someone at the... Now, I don't know if young people remember these things, they remember bulletin boards where you would post it in driving home for Thanksgiving, 'cause I do wanna split gas to Akron or whatever. And so she gave out a bulletin board looking for a ride share, and there's this guy who is like, Oh, are you also going to Ohio? And oh, they agree that they're gonna drive because she is leaving before the end of the semester, and it's like an off time for rides, so they get in this car together, these two strangers and basically, although there are flash-backs and some flash forwards, the whole book takes place between the two of them during this drive from the East Coast to the midwest, so it's not even tell... I think it's like New Jersey to Ohio, so it's not even that long of a drive, but it takes up the whole book and it is taught as fuck TA uttermost Ling podcast.
1:03:49.0 S1: So basically, the thing in question is like her best friend has just been murdered, the killer still has never been caused, and the clear thing that she keeps thinking about is like the killer is still out there. What if I just got in the car with this murderer? And so, of course, and it's mostly from her point of view, there are a few little snippets that dab into other people's points of view for purely plot necessary reasons, but it's like she's a pretty unlike character in some ways because she's clearly going through a lot, but I think I thought was super interesting about her... She's a big film buff. I almost always hate reading books where the main character is really like famous Cannon Films because they sound like such assholes whenever they talk about them, but I don't know how, but Riley Sagar seems to me, he must just be an anti-asshole because he somehow manages to make this girl who's a film major in the 90s talking about Hitchcock not seemed like an utter forces as... And that's the project to me, that's talent kasay, she has her parents died when she was young, and she's always had this...
1:05:02.8 S1: Excuse me, this dissociation where when the things are really stressful, she see these things as if it's still... Some things aren't real, some things are partly real, and so she like... Excuse me, I hold on. Take a second, because I can take a tree. We love you. Sorry for those of you who can't see. Ron even had the tears in her year trying to hold it together for you all she really was... I just really trying... And France got pain where your voice goes away... Yeah, yeah.
1:05:39.9 S2: I can hear the little... That's happened down stage. Actually, that's like the word, it's like right in the million, it'll just... Notionally mistakes here are much lower for me.
1:05:49.8 S1: Anyway, she just can't tell what's real and what's not real at certain high-stress moments, which of course is sort of a problem if you're trying to figure out if you're in the car with a murder. Anyway, I will give away nothing, so I'm not gonna say any more, but I will say this book has a triple twist and not a... Not a one I'm gonna trick you way, in a way that is very character-oriented, anyway, highly recommend... Survive
1:06:23.6 S2: Is gonna order it... Let me finish. Well.
1:06:25.8 S1: Yeah, I'm super excited. I got it in a book box, so it was not one that I picked myself when I saw it, and I was like, Oh, that looks really, really good. I'm super pumped about that. And so I'm excited to know somebody else that I can talk about the book, then after I'm done, I... He's like the thumbs up. I
1:06:54.6 S2: Don't try to talk 'cause I know when you... Keith moved by the book that she's in tears.
1:07:03.7 S1: She's very into it. Well, thank you guys, you just held up the book and reacted crying, thank you guys so much for spending another hour or so with us here into your romance writer, we love having you, please send in your Nana letters, you can ask that about sex, which we tend to talk about quite a bit relationships work, writing books, anything give you questionable advice on absolutely everything, so please go to German writer dot com and submit your anonymous letter and let us know or if you have a topic even that can be kind of fun.
1:07:47.6 S2: Or if you found something like, we like to go through other sources and find interesting things I talk about just Senate, have some really fabulous, more fabulous guests coming up, people with Katie and... Yeah, so tune in, right? Yes, never know who might be answering your letter. That is
1:08:05.2 S1: Very, very true. We've got a great guest coming up, I... Alright, should we talk them shooting some into your guys... I'm the nice one. I'm on commend in your letters, thank you so much for spending another hour with us, we can't report that Ron is still breathing. And smiling. That's smiling. She's still with us. Yeah, she just feels very powerfully about that book, so... Yes, thank you again, have a great day and try not to be in high school. So there you go. Thank you so much for subscribing to Dear romance writer. Remember to keep sending in those letters in dermatitis dot com, you can't wait to tell you what to do. Your romance writer is part of the frolic Podcast Network. Find more podcasts you love framed podcast.