EPISODE 45
TRANSCRIPT

0:00:11.2 S1: Welcome to Dear romance writer, were three writers who always deliver happily ever after after questionable advice for all of your relationship, work and life problems. I'm CEO, Rod.

 

0:00:21.9 S2: I'm Avery Len, and I'm run parish. We have such a great show for you today with the amazing USA Today best-selling author, Dylan Allen Dean, welcome. We're so happy to have you... Hear the world about yourself.

 

0:00:38.4 S1: I am Diana, I am it contemporary romance. My background is, I was a lawyer for 15 years, and my family is from Ghana, and I've lived in lots of different places, and so all of that really all of that finds its way into my work... I'm a writer, I'm a reader first, and I wrote my first book as my Fortis, a 40th tapes to myself, just as I always want to see that I was a... How are you 40? Yehoshua turning 40 a year, I was turning 40. I was in my most rabid romance heating phase, I've ever been in a man, I've been a manmade since I was 11 or 12, but I was reading for racial, 'cause my kid was finally sleep at my youngest was finishing, and I was... And I got in, I was commuting to work in a ton audio books, and I was reading out to be no and everything I get my hands on, and I was just... And I love romance, and I kept on wanting to see someone who was an immigrant or the child of an immigrant or from Dana or from a multi-racial family, or a black prison who has inhabited very quite spaces or a whole...

 

0:02:06.1 S1: Inland, I wanted to write that person and I wanted to see her and because I can relate to just about anybody, whether it's yours or melons or Beverly Jenkins, the human experience is relatable, but there is something about repeatedly, it almost feels like an easier reading books as we know people like you would be, but there is no one like you knew what the... But I also did not... I'm a lawyer and writing and the storytelling is in my head, I always say that I was born in the wrong... I was on... I should have been born in this time where there was oral... The storytelling tradition with oral, there were controls. Because writing is not writing. It's not my favorite thing because it's very hard because I'm not... And I'm not as it's very hard for the way my brain works because I have to say... So I boycott, my first book that I just finished re-editing... I'm so glad I did. I was set in London where I lived with the young American daan, American lawyer who was in London for her dream job and her parents, her father worked at Enron and was there at the collapse and was implicated in the collapse, but has been a future...

 

0:03:33.4 S1: I from the law since then, so it's like all this stuff that might not attentional my parents both worked in on my dad was the vacation, I got beers that first book, it was just like me wanting to see myself, me wanting to write my experiences, and then and also wanting to write a really great love story, and I Barroso much from my own personal dating stuff for it, and then I didn't think anyone would care, but I also... When I do anything, I just wanna do it well, so I had a blog, so I was friends with a few authors already that helped me, Kennedy and I were just getting to know each other a penny read though at the time was like my... Love her first. And who said, You have you, if you wanna see her. Then you have to write her, I used to do it and I'll help you. And she did help me, and I got a cover, I even bought a blog tour, and I started something, it's like a bug, and between my first and second book, which were only written a few months apart, the growth, it's like writing as a muscle.

 

0:04:45.1 S1: Right, but I still... I'm still learning my craft and I... I'm sorry, this is supposed to be a really short answer, I'm sure. No, that's my writing it...

 

0:04:57.3 S2: All of that stuff comes in...

 

0:04:59.0 S1: All of my writing is... All my writing is diverse, it is usually has some international setting, and we deal with people who are undocumented, people who are sex workers, people who are... Who are billionaires, but people who have lots of family drama, there's a... We kind of come, no matter where you are, we find the human and the love and give these people who in real life probably wouldn't have a happily ever after that when people love your work. Day I resinous buying them for coasters. No, first day on, I only remember the bad reviews, right, so how to cover reveal the other day, and she was like, Oh my God, someone called it cute, and I was like, Was that the only comment on the thing... 'cause I was like, No, first of all, I'm most... Coming that as a compliment. I know in her mind it's not, but to the other comments, he's like, That's only what I remember, and I was like, Yeah, I do, we do that. So, yeah, you tonight, but I ask the right for very specific. I think that it's not for everybody, because not everybody wants that in their romance, people complete estate, we don't wanna think about hard things, but it's also really...

 

0:06:19.0 S1: The payoff is great. So you start...

 

0:06:20.9 S2: The path is fabulous.

 

0:06:22.4 S1: Yeah, and that's what's great about Romans or something. For everyone, right? I know, but everybody could say, Look, everybody could learn anything from us ever enrol sometimes I don't chat stuff and think a writer is the only people who know how to stick a landing, like Are we the only ones on not to end the story because more

 

0:06:41.7 S2: It's not just sticking a landing, it's sticking on landing that everyone knows is coming... Right, that is a hard fucking thing to do.

 

0:06:50.7 S1: Yeah, somebody want... Data was talking about the age, there was a guy on Twitter, he was from another... As younger, I wanna say like mystery or sci-fi or something, and he was like, Man, I have to give it up to her man's writers because you guys do it every time, he's like, You know what the pay-off is going to be, but you find a way to take us on the journey without it being boring or were predictable or everything. I was like, How do you guys do this? And I was like, Oh, I met teeny come stand and talk to me about Roman. Anything other than really the boss, that it is a site.

 

0:07:25.9 S2: All you have to do is throw some stuff together and write some moms at the orientation. Yeah, it really... That sets all A... I've always wanted to write a book, but I just wish I had the time, 'cause then I would be like Stephanie Meyer a AAA the time. Gosh, talk about time 'cause Zenith on deadline, and I wanted to talk to Western... I'm ready.

 

0:07:56.3 S1: I'm already from my room to... My name is a sabotage is my name. I'm promoted

 

0:08:10.1 S2: Of brings us into the whole time of Roman traders know how to do it, which we do, but the whole idea of professional... Yes, we are getting to book signing season while you're look over, if somebody's really long line or they're huge pre-order lists or somebody... It's the list with a book that you're like, really... And sometimes you're like, Argh, really, it depends on how you're thinking it... It can go both ways. Right. And professional Jesse happens to everybody, we all want what he... She, they are having... So how do you guys deal with it? What do you do

 

0:08:53.7 S1: To Andretti about this all the time? Most of my good friends in this business are tremendously more successful than I am, and I've been doing this a lot longer than I have, and so it is... But because they're my friends, I think people assuming that we're all in the same place, and so I feel... This is just my lens, but I do feel a sense of a lack of... I feel a lot, I feel a sense of the lack of accomplishment, but I also do feel like yesterday, someone tell me some very excellent news and I am happy for her, but there was a moment of like, open God. But what I've learned is rote the jealousy, I think it's okay, you can... Who would we be if we did not? We are at all ambitious people, so there are things you want to achieve, this is your solar course. So I've learned to just accept that I will feel that way and it doesn't make me a bad person to tell that way it is what I do with it, and what we all do that I think matters. And what I do with it is a lot of dummies, and then I pray, and then I say, Okay, that's amazing, and I'm so happy for you, and I really am, because when one of us does well at me, it's passion of us does something.

 

0:10:21.6 S1: Well, that means it's possible... The possibility exists. So it's inspiring. And some of it just about this book and I don't look for a while that helps because when I'm... So I don't know what about you do it. Talk about it, talk about it.

 

0:10:42.6 S2: And I love what you said about making room for the feeling, 'cause I think that the thing that's most important to me is like I don't want my potential inability to feel a feeling to fuck up someone else's moments, and so I think it's my responsibility that the jealousy is my high responsibility, it has nothing to do with that person, it is nothing to do with... Even with my own achievements, but yeah, I feel like... Usually what happens is whenever I feel that paying, I sit with it and I try to figure out, Am I actually envious of the thing that they have, or do I just feel like it's a reminder that I don't have something to announce... That's great at that moment, and usually it's the latter, usually the thing that the person has isn't even something I care about that much, what I care about is that it's like a marker of success in... And so then I'm able to be like, Okay, I'm jealous that someone else got a marker of success, that's normal and means nothing, it's a value neutral things. So yeah, I guess I'll just to my day and then it goes away.

 

0:11:45.9 S2: Usually.

 

0:11:47.1 S1: Yeah. Yeah, I agree with both of you guys. It's definitely... I suffer from Impostor Syndrome really, really badly, and so that kicks in whenever I see something from... Especially somebody that I know really well, I'm super, super happy, happy for them. And then I'm like, Yeah, I'll never get there. You know what I mean? That bad kicks into... And I have to let myself feel that, but I wanna talk about the other side of professional jealousy when you are with the recipient of the jealousy from other people, which is, it always blind side me because it comes from places where I don't expect it to come from... You know what I mean? You can tell when it's from someone or from some arena that you don't really interact with that much and you're just like, Okay, whatever, you can brush that off or let that roll off, but when it's from someone that you know or someone that you don't expect it from that's where I get... That sort of brings me up short. You know what I mean? And it's like, Okay, how do I tread here? Do I not talk about this cool thing? What do I do? And then you try to go like, Well, you'll get there too.

 

0:12:52.7 S1: Like you don't wanna have platitudes, but like what do you do in that situation? What do you guys do if and when you run into the situation where it's like someone is very clearly experiencing you're behaving, you're just like, What do you do or say with... Sorry, it's something else on the answer, do you wanna talk... Because I

 

0:13:11.2 S2: Think I'm two mines. Alright, I don't have a firm opinion, which is shocking, I have from Pinot everything, but I think for me, sorry, the dogs are going nuts, you guys are here, but for me, it's like a little bit of a war between that Midwestern... We don't talk about this stuff. And maybe just my kind of Midwestern, but you don't talk about the really good things, you don't talk about the really bad things, everything is even, and there's just like a cultural more for everybody to be on the same level, right? At least where I was raised and how I was raised. So it makes me super uncomfortable personally, but I think there's also I... There is a balance between like, I would not tell somebody stories about my dogs, if their dog had just gotten smashed by the cross-town bus... Right, I would not do that. So if there somebody who I know who has been shopping a book for a really long time and just got a rejection about 182, which we all have gotten... I'm not gonna walk up and be like, Oh yeah. Sign contract with recuse. I chose rude, but at the same point in time, if you are not able to celebrate your successes with your friends, then I think that says something about your friendship, whether it's because you can't celebrate with your friend's success or your friends cannot celebrate with your success either.

 

0:14:54.5 S2: Way, that gets to be a rough thing, and Robin coming to Kim Kincaid and I did a workshop a couple of years ago about personal jealousy, and we did it because we went through this whole circle because this business is so cyclical, somebody is doing better than somebody else at all points in time, somebody who's doing worse than somebody else at some point in time, right, depending on how you're judging those things, right, is that money as a book sales into detention is a critical claim, whatever it is. Is it the ability not to drink before... At night. Alright, what choices? Right, so we went through a really rough patch in our friendship, and we have been friends for... I don't even know how long it's been that long now that I'm just like, you know what, you're getting a three-way casket, it just makes things easier to... And what we ended up having to do and what we had to learn to... With review... Yeah, the three of us.

 

0:16:05.2 S1: Right? Ethically in Robin coming to a tetramer.

 

0:16:12.1 S2: But what we had to do was painfully, because Kim is very in two feelings, Robin and I are very not into feelings, so this went really well, but we had to painfully go through the Ron approach and actually talk about our shit like grownups, imagine that in a way, out and be able to say, Hey, I haven't told you guys about this because of Asian, I'm not in a place to listen to you talk about why because of Z. And to be able to acknowledge to each other that it's okay to be in that position, as long as you know, I just need a moment to be with my feeling it. And then we get back to where we are, right? And that's not faith, I don't feel it is actually being mature enough to realize that, and I think the other big thing with professional delay is I like... So I've been very surprised I've had people that I've known since forever who have suddenly not been nice to me either because they feel I have not my success or whatever reason it may be, whatever baggage comes with that, right. Where there have been people who've become very successful and have done the opposite, where it's like...

 

0:17:46.3 S2: I don't talk to people like you. Right. So it can go... It can go either way. It is a weird... There's ego, even when you try not to involve your ego, there's ego in the

 

0:17:57.7 S1: Fort, of course, and...

 

0:17:59.8 S2: Well, I shouldn't say we're competitive, it's not more competitive, it is a pull... Some of us are competitive, not all of us are competitive, they're really are... I know it's weird to think about someone, but they're out there, they're out there, but I see, I think there are folks that... I think no matter whether we're competitive or not, we all wanna put a story out there that reaches the ears, and that I think also is what makes it hard is like if I see somebody who just got a big deal, I'm like, Oh... Even though everything's going fine, it still happens. It still happens. It happens to all of us, and that was a really long ramble... Sorry.

 

0:18:42.6 S1: No, no, no, I mean, all of us such really, really things you think, Ron, you said something about, it's not the other person's burden, and as you said that, I thought, Yeah, of course. But I think what I also know is that not that there are people who feel that way, usually people who are empathetic, compassionate, and then there are people who don't feel that way, who... That term is re-loves is a thing when they want you to either feel guilty or to not enjoy it, some weight, and really you don't know that that person is that way until something happens to you... That's great, and then you realize, Oh. Oh, I didn't realize that you and I always expect... I kind of expect... And I think I grew up have two sisters and we're very, very, very different from each other, and every were physically, emotionally, but we're very, very good friends, and I think because of that... Because there was never any competition. And I don't know, and I did not really know what... And they were my friends growing up, so I didn't understand it as well as I do now, just so aloft, my home, but I also...

 

0:20:02.8 S1: For me, the way people deal with it, because I don't expect anyone not to feel it, I don't... If I'm getting married and my friend just isn't a break-up, I know she loves me, but I also know that it's gonna make her feel like she'll feel something like what she does with it is a thing that is... The big deal for me is when I know it's not default, I know this is my emotion, I know that if I am your friend, I'm not gonna do anything to spoil your moment. Right. And so for me, when I'm... When I'm the object of Jean, I really feel like people only see the outside, so I don't... I never... And that's a really good point, right? They only see the end result. It's really, it's sad when it come through someone who I have shared for, who I thought was my friend because it's very revealing it both to feel about me, because you can love someone and still treat them badly, but if someone does that to me, I will never trust them with my good news again and... 'cause I'm careful. I know, I think I have a...

 

0:21:15.3 S1: You can sense, I know. Like you said, I'm not gonna go and like, Hey, look at my deal when I know you're happy, but even when I'm jealous, I never... If I'm in a moment where it first to face-to-face, listen, I will never let it... If you're my friend and you're talking to me, I have to swallow it, I will follow it, and let you have your moment and be happy for you, you deserve it and then go eat Dumbarton or whatever. But yeah, I think it's really... That's the thing, is what? It's not, but not everybody recognizes that, so there are some people who do not think Who are and make don't care in the moment, they just lash out 'cause he...

 

0:21:57.5 S2: And I think that's part of it. You brought up the whole sitting and you're feeling and recognize it, I think sometimes it's really hard. Sometimes it can... You'll internalize it. Some folks can internalize it, some folks don't recognize it as professional, else it becomes anger or resentment, or something else that actually ends up holding them back and being able to achieve with their goal, whatever their goal is

 

0:22:20.3 S1: To one of the tests.

 

0:22:22.5 S2: Being able to acknowledge it is super important.

 

0:22:25.3 S1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I'm one of those people that if someone minimizes an accomplishment of mine than I do too... Do you know what I mean? Like if they say, Oh, well, that's not really that big of a deal, and I got a short... That's me, right. So I had to like, you know what I mean? I had to like, Okay, no, this is... I worked hard for this. I have to put myself back in a canoe... Coaches jealous is like today in... Say this desolate. He is a diva.

 

0:23:01.2 S2: You had allowed other friends from...

 

0:23:02.7 S1: Go into the sunshine now. Yeah, there you go. I stopped off for making friends, the worry of just sort of knowing that there's a... Because it is a thing, people have stopped talking to me and I don't know why, and then I realize... No, no, yeah, my circle has grown so small, a set, when they're not so close to you may not hurt so much when something they really want comes your way, because I don't wanna make anyone feel bad, and I think in this space in particular, when it is success is not common. But you know what I mean? So what it happens, a really big deal, and if it ever happens, if the things I want ever happen, I don't want anyone around me who's gonna make you feel anything other than a firecracker that day, and so I've been very careful about who I say is my friend and who? 'cause we announce it. If I don't have to see it, I don't really care how people feel it, I don't care, but if I wanna tell my friends, then I know who I can tell and know that even if they are, they will buy it back just like I would on them you know what I mean? It has affected the way I met friends, that whole dynamic, because on friendships I had.

 

0:24:27.8 S2: I think that's so interesting too, because I just don't know a lot of people in romance Lando. I don't have a very wide circle of people that I keep in touch with, and it wasn't intentional, I'm just not very sastre friends, and she's so... And that's not a anti... Don't take it as one, but I do, I think that not just because of jealousy reasons, but I do... I think it's hard, it's wonderful to have friends in this business because there are people who understand what all the little things about this business or like, and that's really useful, but I find it really useful that most of my friends are outside of this business because it's such a useful reminder to me that This is one and piece of my life, this is one a little bit of publishing, and I think the thing that is most useful or has helped me the most, I think with being jealous is just the... I deeply feel that publishing is absurd, it's not based on merit, based on... But if you're a good writer, it's not based on how good your book is, and so knowing deep in my heart that publishing is a business that is based on trends, and I've never in my life been trendy, it helps me a lot because I'm like...

 

0:25:48.9 S2: I wasn't like trendy in high school, so why would I be publishing... It was my home. That way I'm doing pretty well. It's okay, I can... Sometimes for you, that is the thing that helps. And I know that will not be useful for many people, but for me, definitely any time I find myself kind of feeling way about like, Yeah, I feel like I should have done something, achieved something, gotten something, I'm like, This is just like... We are on a tiny planet whirling in the middle of... Nothing is nothing, not fear and go write what I wanna write and other people... Other people caring about that stuff does not mean that I have to, so that's what I try to spend for myself

 

0:26:36.0 S1: Is I love it too much, or him just bringing my penis... Still a friend I wanna introduce. He's been at my... Had surgery and I couldn't... I had to list her on my back

 

0:26:49.7 S2: For a Wiesenthal, I can't say, Okay, that is your Canaanites, a durable... Well, he's my... Oh wait, we just like what you put up, penis. Pillow said, no information can be shared.

 

0:27:10.0 S1: We lost your audio. I think you push something with you too.

 

0:27:17.8 S2: Alright, go back

 

0:27:19.9 S1: Either you are... I have my Do Not Disturb on, but my husband is exception to you, and he just called, and I am sorry I

 

0:27:26.6 S2: Testicle this episode, the cutest penis we've ever seen... Yale's

 

0:27:39.1 S1: The best of whatever, because he doesn't want anything back for me, I just... I do here the clean, my kids love it. My youngest is a sonic fan and he'll put on his... And he's like, all I saw. A metaphor has a OEE.

 

0:28:00.2 S2: Other didn't even know that he doesn't get the... He just... It's literal for him. Sanomat, with hesitation of those, Asami haven't sorted something new, I've learned something new. Alright, I don't know why we need to go to the Tigre

 

0:28:27.8 S1: Implications really get to our letter... So this is from a Reddit, I pretty sure this is from Reddit. So wife, 25 female leaves me, 25 male to look after the cats while she goes on trips... How do I bring it up with her? A long story cut short, I've been married for almost two years now, and my wife earned significantly more money than me, she enjoys using her money to go on trips with her mother or with her friends to the point where she'll be away four to six times per year for up to a week at a time. Sorry, I don't have... I don't have much disposable income and our finances are separate, so I'm not able to pay my own way and always end up staying home. It's gotten to the point where my wife doesn't tell me when she's going away and just assumes that I'll stay home and look after our cats. Yesterday, I brought up the idea of going away for a night with her during a holiday, but she turned me down because she had already arranged a trip with her mother for a week that I wasn't aware of, I expressed that I feel lonely and left out, but she got upset and feels like I'm trying to guilt trip her over going away, I haven't been anywhere in two years while she's been on tens of trips including going abroad, maybe this is on me and maybe I'm overreacting, but what is a good way to talk...

 

0:29:46.4 S1: This through with her, without sounding like I'm trying to guilt trip her or persuade her not to travel to... Dr. Wife goes away frequently and Leave me alone, big sad. How do I bring up without upsetting her.

 

0:29:57.1 S2: Right. In your... Who are listening on the podcast, please go watch... Please go watch, you can watch Rowan Dylan's faces, because it of them should ever play poker

 

0:30:07.6 S1: In a more malayo re-not married or Cathy consider and she just like you're at... 'cause capstones, Ive to board. So she married you to watch that avocation with maybe on her friends, but you are not me. You're married and paper, but not in real life. Not really. Sorry.

 

0:30:35.9 S2: Just don't tell the... Offer the boats a lot. So I picked this letter, and let me tell you why I picked it out as well, because number one, I mean by itself, we're all gonna have the same answer, which is that woman is a stone bitch and right over on fire in the driveway and... No, no, no. That's why you do it. Do you don't have jallikattu, he... This guy is afraid to talk to his wife about all of this, he's not gonna set her shit on fire... Alright, anyways, I'm not condoning setting other people shit on fire, God tell, but just a lawyer. What jumped out to me about this letter besides just the absolute ridiculousness of it, is that I think people get into relationships and they set patterns in that honeymoon phase or relationship, and that's when and things can come back and bite you in the ass. And as a child of the 80s, I graduated high school and early net in 92, it was... You didn't ever wanna be like the other... Is it was prime, not like the other girls. Time, right? So no demands, all of those things and looking back at it now, I see all of the ways that I sabotage myself in relationships, because I set those patterns early because of how to socialize, but I think every relationship you do this, you...

 

0:32:18.3 S2: You set patterns in your honeymoon phase and sometimes it's hard to come back from those, so while this letter is ridiculous, that's kind of what jumped out to me is that this guy has set a pattern in his relationship, they have set a pattern, it's not just this time, it's... They have... Of what is acceptable. I think she soon called bitch, but... But yeah, I think it's interesting on when you set patterns early on in a relationship, how do you change and adjust those, because the other person may see that as, Oh my God, you're not the person you said you were... Right. So what do you do? Where do you come back from a cost...

 

0:33:00.5 S1: I don't know, I am such a black and Myrtle all or that's in person, and I don't believe that. I think you can all... When you're in a relationship, no one is ever giving exactly the same because we are not all capable, but what should be the same is the clarity on the kind of commitment in a relationship you have, and... First, I'd like to say, I think that she is going to miss the rare thing to have a husband or a partner who is comfortable with, is happy to support her career to the sheet because she's the breadwinner. A lot of I know women who make nominee their husbands and it is a problem, it is affectionate. So on the post to you for being the kind of person who is just happy for her to go, but I think that it's very hard to re-set in a relationship ever begin in middle end because you cannot do it unless you're doing it together. Either the thing, it doesn't matter, or how you all feel or whatever is happening, if you all are not on the same page about the kind of relationship you want, and the of commitment, we want a marriage is a piece of paper and nothing changes.

 

0:34:14.3 S1: So the commitment is there or it's not... If you all are not on the same page about it, one of you is going to end up like this guy who is unhappy, deeply unhappy, and I'm able to see A... You can't even admit he's unhappy, right. And you financially dependent, maybe and not relive her best life. That's not right at all. That's so cool of her. I'm so sorry. But that's not what partnership is, which is what... That's what makes it worth it. You have someone to split the Don and Don vacation where they not be left alone to watch a cat. Italy's interesting, 'cause as someone who used to go on the road a lot, and even now with the author thing, you go to signings and stuff, and so you're away several weekends a year or several four-day trips a year, but I used to go on the road a lot, I would be away for a month, sometimes if I was in Europe, and I would invite Mr. Ed with me, he does not like traveling with me if I had work, if I have to perform somewhere, if I had the sign somewhere, he doesn't want it to be part, and he wants you to completely separate from the vacation thing.

 

0:35:21.5 S1: 'cause I was invited once to a signing in the Bahamas, I think it was it that cancelled because of the pandemic, that was like, Okay, I only have this one afternoon where I have to do something, we could just go for the week and I can write it off for ever. And he was like, No, I think that's... So he just does it and he wants him to be completely suffer, so I'm like, Okay, well, I'm gonna be in Europe for a month. So do you wanna work? So once he came over with me to England and he came to a couple... Some of our friends came with him, so it was like a group trip-up thing, and they came to a couple of my shoes, but that's the only time he doesn't like doing it, so I made a point of when I'm home, Let's go do the vacation, it was like, Oh, I get to do this thing, which is work, but I'm still traveling and since things... But when I'm home, we can go travel and SQL things together, so I made a point of doing something with him, which it doesn't sound like this is happening here, he's like, I haven't been anywhere in two years...

 

0:36:17.3 S1: They've been married for two years. So I... Have they ever make it to take a honeymoon together, to go to a theater with her mom... Boom. And her friends at the habeas, that's very early in a two years in it, you said, Honey moon as two years, you're still in your monetary should do that, and if it's the honeymoon, you should really... I mean, I'm not, I don't know, I'm very... Like I said, I'm very absolute, so I'm quick to be like, get up and go. But that's not a sustainable situation. You're gonna end up... And you're not... He's asking this question, but it's going to bubble over that kind of a build resentment because it's very unfair, but there... And she is not even an... Yeah, so I'm gonna say it stands out because he says, I'm not able to pay my own way on these vacations, which... Yeah, I mean, I know that people have... They keep their money separate, sometimes they'll be like a joint account that they share that they both... 'cause in this situation, who's paying for the mortgage, who was paying for the groceries, who's paying for cat food, how does this...

 

0:37:28.8 S1: How is this happening here? So if you take a vacation together, you can't take one because she can pay for her trip part just to... 'cause I like the Montana Boland, that's what... And you can't, but you know, Oh my God, or they just do it equally, that she had so much more left over that she could do that, she's like, Well, I'm gonna go travel one day, you will be able to... I mean like, when did you wanna take a trip with you with your art? I don't know what it was, rothes dynamics. There was a moment, and my parents, Margery mother was the bread winner of my sister is rewinding her relationship, I'm not in mind, even though I would like to be... I wouldn't mind 'cause I... Sinter was some power in IT, guys, with the man who doesn't mind, it's like living... That is prime living for a one... You really are married. I mean, it's ideal, I think anyway, so is a lot different with money, even if you don't use it as a weapon or a tool, there is something about the way you feel, but I think it's a really interesting dynamic, but not everyone can do it because of the way men and women are socialized with the gender, there's an expectation, and I think my husband wouldn't mind, but he's definitely been socialized to feel like everything is his responsibility as a man, and I was not really in...

 

0:38:54.4 S2: I married that crazy conservative guy, and there have been several times in our marriage, we flip-flopped several times, and who makes more money, but I never has bothered him, I think if never bought him now, I could make a trillion dollars a year, and he still would not quit his job, but that's actually for the best for both of us, because no one should go to jail, but... Yeah, no. So I will say that yes. And I know a lot of authors who have hit certain income levels and their relationships with their partners have suffered...

 

0:39:48.5 S1: Oh yeah, I saw that when I first got into the business at all that it was like two or Featherstone and it was like, Oh my goodness, what is happening? Yeah, yeah, and it's much... It's a huge sisal. It's always been in reverse one way and then you have to

 

0:40:04.7 S2: Re... Okay, wait, but I'm gonna drag us back to our cat letter because I've heard from yet and Ron always have such good investment, I have no problem with one person in a partnership taking a bunch of vacations if... By themselves, if... Or with other friends. Like everyone has their own thing. Whatever, I think that's not a big deal. I do think it's very weird, the paying his own way thing, I think is weird, because I know if I had money to go on a trip and my girlfriend didn't, I would just want her to come so I Careware, and that's totally normal to me, 'cause I would have a better time with her there, and so the fact that she has these trips that are like with sisters with friends with her mom, there's nothing wrong with that, but I think if she's not also trying to take trips with him... That to me, says something about what they're not... She's gonna have more fun with him there, and if your partner doesn't have more fun with you there, that's a major red flag to me, and I think my advice to this person would be to sit down with her and ask like...

 

0:41:13.5 S2: What's your favorite thing about going on vacation with your mom, what's your favorite thing about going on vacation with your sister, what do you and your friends do you on trips that... What you look forward to, and I think that those answers will be really interesting because if what it reveals is that she's someone who is a different person with her female friends, her family, whatever, and it's a kind of thing that she doesn't have with him, 'cause that's just not the kind of relationship that they have, then that would make a lot of sense to me, and in that case, I feel like it would be really easy for him to say, I really want you to have that time to be the person that you are with those people, but I would love to have time where you and I get to have a dynamic work out, a dynamic where we have a lot of fun together. Would you think about, Could we have a station? It doesn't cost anything. We both take two days off work and have a long weekend, and we order food, and you don't have fun, we play a game, or play truth or dare or something to go to museum or something.

 

0:42:18.1 S2: Yeah, or you can get drunk together and do weird funny things, and I think that something like that, if she goes for it, then what you have the chance to do is enjoy time with her, feel like you're on vacation a little bit without being there 'cause you can't 'cause you can't afford it. But also maybe show your partner that there are ways that she could have a lot of fun with you, that you should be included, and if she says anything but yes to that, if she hesitates that she's like, God's not fun, that's not a real vacation. That's not... We can hang out any time, then I straight up, she does not like spending time with you as much as she likes spending time with a bunch of other people, and in that case, I feel like you need to say, Is there any time that I'm the person you most want to be with on vacation at night at breakfast, to having such anxiety at the idea of being so vulnerable that you're willing to ask that to a tee that in one. Open advice, because I'm like, No, you're right, you're 100%.

 

0:43:27.9 S1: Before, I just think that... I don't know, I like the conversation, but if it... Don't eat know that if all those things happen is... Or maybe not, maybe it's okay, but I feel like they're still something in her strange that he can't... Can't go on vacation. Because she won't... He wants her to travel, I can't do that is... I don't know, but yeah, it feels like a... Yeshe, would die and deprive him of that, maybe they don't... Maybe if my husband can be Ford, I couldn't... Maybe he would just not. I mean like economy and statement, we could go together in Enfield, the thing that your partner would do and that... Yes, plan is vacation, you can both the board, but it just feels like that's not what he wants to go to the...

 

0:44:29.2 S2: FEI was just gonna say, I think what I get from this letter is he's so invested for a writer for wrong, for good or bad, he is still invested in this, and that's why I think what Ron... The same roads plan makes sense. Even as scary. Vulnerable, 'cause it sounds... Write it all down 'cause you'll get nervous, but being able to do that, I see that because I think... Honestly, I think this guy is so invested that he's going to mean... I mean, we all look at this letter and see what's on the wall, right, it's really hard not to see what's on the wall with this, but he's gonna have to have it literally painted in his own heartbreak blood on the wall for him to get it. He's gonna have to sit down and have this conversation. Right, and if this is somebody, if the wife is somebody who is so clueless about the harm she is doing, right, I think... That's the most generous interpretation I can come up with. If this is somebody that is so clueless about this and Oh, I didn't think you minded, I thought this was how our relationship worked, you know, then that gives that opportunity, I think the actual chance that happening is 000001, but he's gonna need to see this, so that's why I think that really having the conversation needs to happen

 

0:46:03.3 S1: At all or... Shit. And he drives, he told her he was lonely and sad, and her response was, you trying to make me feel guilty about going on a trip, so that's not a good exchange... No, no, and I said, I just get to be vulnerable, but not everybody deserves because you also... The vulnerability means you are open to her and some hotspot, ECT my heart. So, I don't know, I think the beginning of the conversation that are this sort of like, what is the thing you do with your friends and you really enjoy? I think that is really great, 'cause if he is invested and he wants to make a way that is, I think a really... That's a fair question to ask. That is on runabout also practical. It could maybe not make it feel so attacked and maybe she feels attacked when he says, I'm only... Maybe should I?

 

0:46:57.2 S2: I know attack 'cause she's wrong.

 

0:46:59.6 S1: So there's some updates to this that you guys need to hear that.

 

0:47:03.9 S2: So I... Waterpa. Just, I wanted to ask your opinion on something. So to me, this letter, it's so bananas, it's such a weird... Her behavior is so weird that I do well, and I am pathological cursed with being nothing but a very gray thinker, doing so the exact opposite, and it is equally a cursed... Or not to say that black and witnesses, I feel like they're both. They both have their pros and cons, but... So my thinking is like, this is so bad shit that what I'm doing is I'm creating a back story for this woman where I'm like... And make it make sense. It can make sense. Maybe, I'm not saying that I think this is true, but what my head is doing is maybe her last relationship was one in which she wasn't allowed to have time to herself, she never got anything if pulled money or collaborated with her partner... They always did what he wanted to do, she didn't feel like she had freedom unless she kept her own assets completely separate and to author coming up for motivation to... And I wondered that if that was the pattern that she had from her past relationship and what she's doing is swinging a little bit too far and the other a lot too far in the other direction and being like, Okay, I know that when I do X, this is what happens then I could see her bringing that garbage from past relationship and being like, okay, the way I can do it and make sure that I get what I need and I...

 

0:48:33.7 S2: From the very beginning, I let it be known is by saying, This is what I'm doing, if you can't pay your own way, then sorry, you can't come and obviously, I think that's wrong and weird, but do you guys get any set... Does that make sense? Do you think that there is some kind of ACADIA back story? Or

 

0:48:52.1 S1: It could be, but again, like you said, about it not being his fault, but all of that is not his fall, she's an relationship with him and she owes him whatever it is that we all each other, but... And it would be different if this was the arrangement, if he was saying, We decided this, she was gonna try to... I stay home and now I'm not happy, but it sounds like that wasn't... He has him expectation of something else, and so I mean, there could be, but again, we all have baggage and in relationships is not the person, and maybe it's not... Maybe that's also part of it, is that it

 

0:49:28.5 S2: Boarding... What is the update? So I'm like, What is the update?

 

0:49:34.6 S1: So there were a lot of comments on the thread and people were saying He's... You're basically a cat sitter. She doesn't care about your feelings. All this other stuff. So he responded and said, Let me just clear up a few common comments, my wife and I are very close and loving outside of this issue, we spend a lot of time together, doing things at home, watching movies, having date nights, and we were also intimate... She messages me often when she's not with me, she sends me pictures and updates at the end of the day, and she called me while she's away, I don't believe she's trying to purposely manipulate me, and neither is she trying to completely cut me off from her finances, she pays for the majority of our shared rent and home finances, she's also not the kind of person who would cheat, and I have no doubt in my mind she is faithful, she wears her emotions on her sleeve and wouldn't be able to hide it otherwise, I think she needs to mature more emotionally and has some issues in that regard, which have caused this issue, I'm not adverse to having difficult conversations with her, but I'd like to avoid upsetting her whenever possible, that's the reason for making this post before you say anything.

 

0:50:33.9 S1: He also posted in a different Reddit about her, where he said that she doesn't want to have sex with him, and when they do have sex, His pleasure doesn't matter. It's all about her. Interesting.

 

0:50:51.0 S2: I see is more than... Irenaeus ever been so hard after the wrong person, I have ever just let your ever loving mind and you look back and you're like... That was awful. How did I not do that out? If none of the people that I love come and yank me physically out of the situation, that is who he is, that he

 

0:51:23.0 S1: Is like you said, it doesn't matter if they in copy, best friend told me you are not. Alright, you don't love yourself. I didn't talk to her for you rather than the brick... That crazy, man. You know what I mean? Like it doesn't mater. When you're not ready, preacher. Yeah, and I was like, Just tell us, casualties a good college or I don't... But you can't see it, so you can see it. You know what

 

0:51:46.9 S2: Made... I shouldn't say everybody, most people have fallen for the bartender at some point in time in their life... Sorry, that's my archive for it. Is the bartender alright? Yeah, you love them. You know, it's wrong.

 

0:52:05.5 S1: I have a friend who used the fault, just crush on DJs, you go to a club like every DJ, and she was just thinking like the bees need... And we were like, Okay. He was like a sin. What he's got... Salute can spend...

 

0:52:29.7 S2: You know what? It's chemicals. Alright, it's chemicals in our brain, and sometimes they focus on that part, if you get

 

0:52:39.9 S1: That good thing, make you make it really cost just sounds like this is a really bad situation for this guy, and I hope he partially... How does he think I'll buy? By asking the questions, they answer themselves. Well, it sounds like she's giving him just enough odometer on screen, just get sick whenever you want, have a cats that are built in like... Yeah, get off and get off before he does, and that's really shopping. I'm like What... I don't think many NATO try to... I, Katha, the price, and she's really...

 

0:53:29.6 S2: I do kind of wanna learn the skills, but... Yeah, anyway, a little bit of Veles here. Alright, so I'm gonna take us off of our letter and... Hold on a second because... There we go. Sorry, I was getting called. It was my turn for the husband call. He must have been like, What the fuck are you talking about right now? There's apartments... One of the things I wanted to talk about is there is a lot of craziness going on in the world right now in cards, the books and book banning and beyond the fact that... That's idiotic. I did wanna ask you guys, as you were growing up, did your parents or family members, guardians, whomever, forbid you guys from reading certain books or anything as a kid, or were you just going crazy in the library... What were you doing?

 

0:54:33.2 S1: No, I don't know, my parents... My father is a huge reader and he's in, so he wanted us to read everything romance... I used to, I felt like... I don't remember if anyone ever told me not to read it, but I felt like I had to hide the book so that when I was in middle school and high school, I didn't want my mom 'cause I knew he watched people kissing on to me, she's like, That's not as nice as it looks, it's that kind of a eyesi. I got a sense. So yeah, but they never said anything, and I know in the same reading, I would run away from home. They tried, so...

 

0:55:15.2 S2: Yeah, say my parents never told me that there was something specific that I couldn't read. I used to... My mom went to aerobics class twice a week at the Y, which was right across from the public library, and so she would drop me at the library and go to her aerobics class, and while she was in there, I would wander around and pick whatever books I wanted and go to the Y after I check them out. And I remember sometimes she would be like, Oh, can I see what you've got or whatever, and be like, Oh, it seems a little mature, but it was always in a ask me if you have any questions kind of way. I do remember an awkward moment on a flight with my... Sitting next to my dad, he was reading a book and I must have asked him what it was about, 'cause I thought that the cover was interesting, and he was kind of like, Oh, well... And later he was like, Oh yeah, it was just... There was sex in the book, and I don't know, I felt very strange telling you about it, and I was like, Okay, you can tell her about a book is about what I just driving, Secchi was...

 

0:56:17.0 S2: Or eight or something. But he just like panic, I guess, in the moment. But I remember what book it was. It was quirky Park and I've never read it, and so I don't know what the sex love... No, I think that was a rather Reebok back in the day. I have not read it either, but that is my... What was that little

 

0:56:37.8 S1: Teeny film wasn't it?

 

0:56:40.0 S2: Is another con, which I also haven't seen. But community, right. What was it? I read whatever my parents were... We definitely were... Go to the library, they didn't really buy as books very much, and there were... I was really into the Christopher Pike and all goose bumps and Arsen books, and they're so short and we read them so fast that you would have to pour a pile of money to buy these also, but at the library, they only had one from two years ago, and I had this friend, eight, who always got all the books she wanted at the book store, her parents would basically bribe her to be quiet by buying for all these books, and so she would let me borrow them, and I was in my glory, but we walked to school together, and if she got mad at me for some reason, she would spoil the book for me, and I have such strong mandalas, the... She was expert to tell me the book and I would be like, Dude, don't tell me, and she would do it anyway, and I would put my fingers in my ears and run the rest of the way home so that I wouldn't hear.

 

0:57:41.3 S2: And it was like one of the... Which is, I'm supremely anti-spoiler. And I do wonder if part of it was that he valve

 

0:57:55.2 S1: Taylor, I'm the family Reader, or was Mr. X-Ed's a lot too. But nobody read when I was a kid, nobody in my family read. And so they didn't care that I read and I was a voracious reader in... You get the summer reading list between years at school, I would finish it in two to others on a pan pizza from clastic? Yes. Oh yeah. Oh, what I missed that. Okay, that's on. But no, I used to be just... But the only time I was ever told not to read something or I was discouraged from reading something was at the library, I don't know how old I was, maybe 11 or 12, and I didn't like middle-aged books, I didn't like Tutti, just didn't like them. That they were not cool enough or whatever, interesting enough. So I would go to the adult fiction section, also philosophy, and I think I went to pick up... It must have been Carly young or something like that, and the librarian was like, Oh, I don't think you should take this book out, this is too old, or something like that, and I was like... So I took out this book, it was called synchronicity, I think is up this book, and it was completely over my head, but I was so determined to take this book out because this woman told me that I should not see...

 

0:59:17.6 S1: Don't tell me No, no, tell me. This is too advanced for me.

 

0:59:22.0 S2: It's proof, if you try to tell someone not to read something all it makes them as an... Read it more in a... Exactly, exactly. That pan pizzas. Alright, because you don't know this. I am very sad. Number one, so we used to get these little cards or little paper certificate things, and it was basically read... You gotta re-check mark off from the school library in when you read a book or the public labor in one of the two, and if you got 10 or something like that, you got a free personal pan pizza from Pizza Hut in distraught up, you didn't have to buy anything else? It was not a energia kid's dream. I am tell, I loved it. So we always... I was always reading, pretty much always, but I remember snag in... I don't remember ever seeing my mom's reading, but I stole all of her dirty books, and I say dirty books because I'm talking like Jackie Collins and all that stuff, so I told them, so she must have read them, I did not actually have any money to buy The Thorn Birds in sixth grade when I cared... Actually, my mom said anything but like Dylan or get the fact that I was stealing those books, I'm sure my mom never had any idea, oh my god, my mom had this...

 

1:00:58.8 S2: Now, there's no way I'm looking at it now going. She probably just was like, Dunhill. So that's really interesting, and I have kind of raising my kids kept that philosophy, I wanna know what my kids are reading, I'm interested in them telling me about what they're reading, but I don't... I know some parents... And everybody raises their kids differently. They won't let their child read a book until they've read it, type of thing, or they do all of those sort of things, and if that is your parenting philosophy, fine, that has just never been mine and sort of like yours with the library, we got A... I don't think it was a notes at home, but my daughter got called out in school, and I wanna say she was like late middle school and she was reading was shining... It's a scary as book... Does it have adult teams? Absolutely, I knew my kids reading that book though, and she was okay to be reading that book, you know... So I didn't have an issue with that, but I know sort of like when my sixth grade teacher called my mom and told her I was reading foreign birds in class, I think that's the only time that I got in trouble for snag in later books and...

 

1:02:21.7 S2: Yeah, I remember that. But it is interesting, I think there definitely... I think it's a comfort level, but I think it's more... My philosophy is it's more of a comfort level with the kid right now the maturity level of my kids, I know what's gonna... Like if I saw one of my boys reading The Shining, I would probably go home, I don't know if that's a good choice for you, and that's simply because they're giant chickens, I love them to do their grant chickens, they won't watch anything scary, like... I can't even get the youngest watch names or shows with me because he doesn't wanna see the animals die. Okay, but my oldest is quite frankly ready for dystopia, and she's been like that since she was born, so I know she was okay, so I think it's sort of knowing how your kid works and what would push them... Now, does that mean that my kids didn't read something they probably shouldn't have to...

 

1:03:20.3 S1: I'm sure I definitely did it in... I think if I could talk to my 15-year-old self, I'd be like, You don't wanna read the Beauty series for man race now you love it, it... This is so beyond your us fear of knowledge here. Yeah, yeah, no, you're in mental amount, a lot of it was on over my head, I would've understood, but I'm not... I think that when they're curious about something, if they're drawn to it, they pick up a book, they wanna read it, I don't read it first, I usually read it with them, if it feels like it's beyond their maturity level, then we definitely get it together, but I don't there's nothing that they picked up to read, I wouldn't allow them, except for things that are... That include a lot of racial violence, just because they are so... It already so traumatizing. And I'm very careful about some lens with which they absorb that... You know what I mean? The lens that it's written from, and I'm so that... But otherwise, if it's just the truth, if it's just the truth or it is, I read to learn new words, so I like that they challenge themselves, they read books are not...

 

1:04:52.6 S1: They're not on their reading list, but just that they're interested in... They pick up of her grandfather self all the time. And the vocabularies are really broad because of it, and so it doesn't wanna disservice because you treat our children like they can't make choices that they don't have choices, and it's such in all of their... All they do, all we're doing by Ban and books or taking is depriving them of equipment they need in the rest of the world that they're going to need. And it's a Roshan, it's a real shame. It's so social excited and I bet, you know... Right. Fiction is powerful. We know it, they didn't know it. So I bottles powerful. And I know what to do, the idea that you can bury an idea and it'll stay buried is now... There's not a... But it's just also a privilege, I think, for people who are used to being able to just touch something and make it go away, or not have to see it, right. And for them, not seeing it is solved, and so I think that is part of it, it's not like these books are not going to be...

 

1:06:16.3 S1: Can't buy it on Amazon, but they don't see it in their data to go to school, to whatever, then it makes them feel better about life, but really they're just setting themselves

 

1:06:27.4 S2: On... I think you hit it right there, like the county, next Wes was one of the counties that was like, We should burn books, literally school board members set it darn meeting about books that were available in the high school, not shockingly, they were all LGBTQ books, right? That was what I... But think you hit it on the head though, it's the ideas and the idea that somebody can see themselves in a book, which we understand the power of that and how important it is. I seek to an extent, they do too, even if it is not acknowledged and I... But some people it is. Some people know, I think that's why they want to just... If they don't have to see it or talk about it or anything else, it's a lot of these things that are going around right now, if they can pretend it doesn't exist and it doesn't exist.

 

1:07:29.7 S1: You wanna validate someone else's idea they don't agree to it, then that is not about not existing is the whole idea, we don't wanna talk about mommy and daddy and school. What do we talk about? We are talking about our sexuality and gender, Protestantism, when has that been a thing that we don't talk about our family status, so it is not about... It is just to exclude...

 

1:08:00.0 S2: That is the heater excluding though, is to me, and this is a tilted, it isolated and

 

1:08:07.3 S1: The other member co, he was like, Oh, I was a gay man who would go on TV and say homosexuals are dangerous... Homosexual shouldn't be allowed to get married, he shouldn't be have a lot to have children, and he was looking around having public sex and o554. So whatever he had a partner, and it's like... It is about power. It's not about how it is really, right? It's about power is of pandering to a basic people who will send you money every month and whatever, it's just a selling as well, and self, love and interaction, it is a lot about the bass, it's about hitting those emotional hot buttons that will get your votes or sales or whatever it... IRAS ratings, whatever it is, like, Hey.

 

1:08:57.8 S2: Yeah, we have had a nice relaxed, calm. Deliberation is light-hearted.

 

1:09:05.9 S1: Started and Gil, what can I do a really, really sweet note, 'cause I said I was gonna bring this up because I'm obsessed, I'm obsessed with heart stopper, I love the web comic, I love Alice, and I can... I was like, Okay, when I heard there was gonna be a series, I was... When one of your favorite things is gonna be adapted, you were like, Oh, I don't know, but she wrote it. I was like, Okay, she's writing it, so. Okay, maybe it'll be alright. The casting is absolutely perfect, it is such a perfect little piece of two short, four hours, the entire series is four hours, and if you guys don't know, heartache for value, this is the original... This is volume one of the graphic novel, I guess you call it, and it's a young adult... It is the sweetest thing. If you want just like a visual hug, if you have an afternoon, you just want a visual hug, watch it on Netflix, it's just so... It's totally perfect. It's my A. Yes. Okay, alright, okay, I'm not my place at. Okay, that's great. Okay, thank you. Yeah, the characters are between 14 and 16 or 17 years old, so...

 

1:10:15.2 S1: And it's just... It's adorable to see good anymore

 

1:10:19.0 S2: More. More and more, more. I'm glad to end on a good note. Yeah, because that you... Yeah, well, Justin, thank you so much for being here with us. It was a green pleasure to one where they can find you on the internet.

 

1:10:38.4 S1: I am Bill and Allan books dot com, peronist, Gram, and I all they're doing all and everywhere else, but doing... Llanos dot com is the best place to find me. You can get all the commission there

 

1:10:53.2 S2: And do you have a most recent release that we can drill

 

1:10:57.2 S1: Actually, I've taken my first books and of a published them to rewrite them, and so they're about to come back up and at the beginning of the TU... I'm going to relaunch them, and so I'm very excited for everyone who has not right then to read them and people who are in further again, is so much better. I'm very Canticle, then came you and it'll be a cage for three minutes and then I'll take it out and get widely available. Awesome. Yeah, that nothing. Well, thank you again, Romania. Man, can you imagine this? Yes, so sorry. Listen, it's like a needle in a ocean for

 

1:11:42.0 S2: Real. Or very, very excited. We so everyone check that out. The Jensen here, and thank you everyone else for listening, remember to send us in your letters, we love pulling weird stuff off of Reddit, but we would love to hear some you... So you can send us your anonymous questions via the form on our website, which is deranged com, you can hear us about any of the socials DMs with your questions. We would love to answer them, so send them all to us. And yeah, thanks for hanging out with us for another episode of Dear romance writer, we can't wait to give you some question, questionable advice from trio of happily ever after enthusiast. Thanks, you

 

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