EPISODE 43
TRANSCRIPT

0:00:11.8 S1: Welcome to Dear romance writer, were three writers who always deliver happily ever after after questionable advice for all of your relationship work and life problems. I'm on Parish, M Cox, and I'm Eberle, and I am super excited that we have the fabulous Lexi Blake, who also makes the perfect old side for titles if you ever have some extras or then just coming to extol everybody a little bit about yourself and some of your fabulous books, and especially what you've got out or coming up, I'm Lee like, I write contemporary and suspense and a little bit urban fantasy. I kind of go all over the place. I've been publishing since 2012. My latest book is called The me from SAN, it's part of the master's mercenaries, which is probably my best non-series. Nice. They're very awesome. Highly record.

 

0:01:11.2 S2: So, so good

 

0:01:11.9 S1: Research. Well, before we do a little christening by fire here with our letter on Lexi, we gotta talk about our week, what's been going on with you guys, giant congratulations to Zeo and everybody else with the night gal anthology, which rates good amount of money to help support folks in Ukraine, and also just hit the top 10 on the US H day lists.

 

0:01:37.5 S2: Thank you everybody who bought it, who recommended it, who shared it and reviewed it. We really, really appreciate it. It's gonna help a lot of people. I'm so excited about that.

 

0:01:47.2 S1: Okay, so what is... Did you do besides be awesome?

 

0:01:53.8 S2: I'm on triple deadline, so that's pretty much all I know right now. But my father's 80th birthday was on Tuesday, and so we had a little thing for him on Sunday, 'cause mid-week... We took them out to dinner or lunch, I guess. And yeah, it was really cool. He got to hang out with everyone, which we don't get to do much because we still don't get together really, you know... Yeah, so we were actually in a restaurant, but it was in a private area, so it was just us, but it was cool to see everyone and be together for a few hours, but he had a blast, and then it was funny 'cause I sent him flowers on Tuesday, and he was like, I don't think I've ever gotten flowers before, I really... Role was like, right? 'cause I'm like, Dad, it's flower is like, Oh, now, you're a universal... Yeah, that was fun. He looks 50. Next 25 birthdays, satiris.

 

0:02:59.3 S1: A young man. Well, for us, we haven't been doing a whole lot also on deadline per usual, but let's see, this airs after Easter, but we're recording right before Easter, and we are leaving to go up to New Jersey for Easter, so...

 

0:03:21.5 S2: That'll be fun. I will eat so incredibly well, there is nothing like marrying into an Italian family, there just really is not the foods

 

0:03:30.4 S1: The... So delicious. So yes, I will be rolling back home, happy and full of canoe. That sounds great. I haven't done too terribly much this week, but I think last time we spoke, I told everyone that I was about to start reading one of the books that has been a really anticipated for me called how high we go in the dark, and so I read it this week, and holy shit, it completely destroyed me, like I finished it this morning, and I had... I just had a video chat with this author, Abby, who's lovely and had been on my registry critique for the romancing the votes, and I finished the book like an hour before we talked, and right before getting on the call, I was like, Oh, I need to put on so much, I shadow that it's not clear that I've just spent like 20 minutes sobbing over the teetering book, it was... Yes, it was quite extraordinary. And it's a really, really sad book that does have to do with a pandemic, although not be pandemic, so I definitely know that for some folks, it's not the right moment, although interestingly is the author began the book in 2011, so it was like...

 

0:04:45.6 S1: Has nothing to do with the current plague, although it is a... Well, anyway, I recommend it so highly, not only was it like so emotional, it's really a book about death, but it's not dark, it's a book about how death is the guarantee of life, and so when we read books about death and plague, like it's not that we don't know we're gonna die. Every single one of us, all of us know that we are going to die, but we choose life in the interim anyway, which I used to love, we choose to take risks, and then this book, it's like death, that's happening sooner. And people know that they're gonna die, but it really meditates on what are the things that we do to resist death while we're alive. So it was also, it was just incredibly beautiful and yeah, it really got me... And that's kind of what I took is what I've been spending my week with this week, and frankly, I'm glad I finished it because I can't just keep crying all the time, but it was really good to... He don't read it in public, basically, and not...

 

0:05:57.1 S2: Probably not, that's a theme, because I just finished some day maybe by one, Napanee, which is coming out in October, and it also deals with death and loss and grief, and also family strife in a way that I can't really go into because I don't wanna spoil it but oh my gosh, but she's Nigerian British, so it has all this wonderful Nigerian family dynamics and it's just amazing, but it's a dab and the pro is just gorgeous, I can't wait for... And if you get a chance to find the cover, the cover is just stunning. It's just gorgeous. But yeah, that theme, I think people... Like you said, sometimes it's not the right moment for a book about death and grief, and especially right now for a lot of people that may not be... But if you can open yourself up to it, it's so beautifully cathartic to read them sometimes you gonna go cry in or just sort of feel seen... Totally agree.

 

0:06:56.1 S1: And I have not really been someone who found myself made super emotional by the pandemic in and of itself, obviously, there have been deaths and there have been things that... That are specifically difficult, but I know a lot of people have dealt with this and being upset about this, and I really haven't... For me, I'm just like a push through until the end, and then eventually my shit catches up with me 10 years later when I don't know what it is anymore, and then I effected on other people, so this was nice to short circuit and get some... Get some paces anyway, highly versus good. Alright, Lexi, how about you? How's your week been? Have you read anything that made you cry? I'm going through the Britons. No, crying for me. Are all very intellectual. All this week was like, I've been on... Ben watched Ava Elementary. Oh, I love that I...

 

0:07:53.2 S2: That she have been watching. The finale was the one at a... Right, yes, I was so good. I have to...

 

0:07:59.1 S1: I've latched in a season to it, so how... Antonis happy. It's a happy thing. And I started a new book. That's pretty much what I did. That's great.

 

0:08:13.1 S2: You're starting a new book is always a good thing, so it means more for us, so... Yeah.

 

0:08:17.9 S1: I... Tharoor is easy, and that we know when I get to about 2000 words, I'm gonna be like, What a win you now, lately the beginning, you know what? It's always interesting to me. I think people... Everybody inversely hates the middle, like I ever met somebody who enjoyed writing the middle of that person is a sociopath and I would run away, but wait, this is a universal thing that you think everyone hates, rarely the middle... I've never heard that. I've never met anybody who says I enjoy writing the middle, I don't enjoy ready in the middle more than the beginning of the end, but I don't like it less or a overseer in there that nice. And stuff happens and stuff happens, and then I get the one getting on the end too. Sorry to interrupt, I just... That's an interesting... No, I find... And I really, I love it. Her usual Road is the exception approves rule, but you... Look, I'll put it this way, most folks do not enjoy writing the middle... Most writers have ever talked to have fallen into the camp of either I love writing the beginning of the book because it's when it's most fresh, it's when it's the most fun, or I love writing the end of the book because I know all my characters and I lived with them and I just can't wait to give them their tea and all of that stuff, to writing to break up, I love writing the reader, it's a little bit of what we're was talking about, it gives me that chance to be emotional when...

 

0:10:00.4 S1: I think so many times as women can't, because we're holding everything else together, so we find this time that we can kind of put all of that stuff we have to hold back into it. And of course, that's why I recreate novels in the first place was to have that, so... It makes sense that I like to bring that. All right, how about you guys? Are you giving us or enters or middle ers everything equal.

 

0:10:29.4 S2: I think I might be in Ron camp in this one because I don't have... It's not that I hate the middle or the beginning of the end, it's all pretty much the same for me, it's probably the... I get nervous about whether I've dropped the ball in the middle of the book after I've done it, you know what I mean? When I'm going, reading it through, I'm like, Oh, this isn't... I haven't tied this through having brought this thread through what... Right. Or something. Totally. Does anybody here, right? Non-linear. Do you write the beginning first, I mean the end first, and then we... Oneonta, and I don't understand that magic is not a set it...

 

0:11:06.5 S1: And the person that I know that does that. They write suspense. I don't even understand how you could do that, I mean, they taught before that at a attainable... Wow. Well, obviously they know who the killer is, because sometimes I don't, and so I have to write until the killer goes like, Hey, I got a nice... I'm packing here. I like the innings a lot. I hate writing the end, I shouldn't say hate, but I dislike riding the end and... The end is the only time, like one time in the last three chapters, I will pop through and I will write in different sections at the same time, but that's the only time otherwise I have to go in here. Yeah, I also... Radially, although I'm trying with the book that I just started to give myself a little bit more grace to devise notes like finish this scene if I don't know how I've seen end, 'cause I'm trying to kind of fast draft it, but I just like to write things about all the pieces, I love the beginning. The first line is the most fun that I ever have, 'cause it's like... Who knows what it's gonna be? Your fingers are just gonna type something, it's so it's like there's so much potential and anything can happen, you have eliminated your possibilities yet, so it's really fun and free, and then I love the middle because the middle is where...

 

0:12:39.2 S1: The middle is the pay-off for me of the intimacy, it's like you're developing all these things where the characters get to have fun together and they're enjoying learning about each other, and then I love the end because in the end, you've sort of written yourself to a point where logically, you don't only have a few options that are gonna make sense and then so there's less that you're choosing from and you get to tie everything up and I enjoy that, but yeah, I just like different things about the different pieces, I guess. For me, at the scene that I'm always like, Okay, right, more here, it's the sexy. Yeah, that's the only time I will go and do something else and I just can't write any more, and so I need to go write some dialogue where people are talking, and now I'm not worried about body parts, amazing. To worry about three arms and six legs and you're like it somewhere in a... Amazing. Well, let's move on. Clearly, we've established ourselves as total experts in everything, as if we can help some people... So our letter today is from a Reddit, is that I'm in, so I can't tell...

 

0:13:58.6 S1: Let's see... No, it was from the... In relationships in Dalston. Great, alright, so my 27 female husband, 31 male posted photos of me on Reddit, stop right there, or if you are listening on podcast, just go pop over to the YouTube and watch the video of everyone's face right there. I insisted cut someone, send suddenly we had a nice... Yeah. Okay, sorry, 27 female husband, 31 male post topos of me on Reddit using a throwaway for obvious reasons, a few years ago when we were in the honeymoon phase for our relationship, we used to take photos and videos of us need, they weren't to share with anyone, just a fun thing to do, that was like five years ago, and I genuinely forgot about that. Last week, I found one of those old picks on a certain bikini subreddit, I freaked out, my first thought was that someone hacked me or something, I confirmed my husband, and he said he posted a few photos, both new and half now to various subs... He didn't think it was a big deal, and that they were a few years old, so it's not like anyone would recognize me from them, I know he took some of them down, but I'm not sure it all...

 

0:15:25.9 S1: I don't know what to think. I just feel so betrayed.

 

0:15:30.9 S2: Throw the whole man out on fire. A divorce attorney. She's about to hire.

 

0:15:38.6 S1: Yeah, 'cause he can take them down, but they're still there. Yeah, I have job.

 

0:15:49.2 S2: Not yearly said here or something, I'd be like, Okay, this is like... This is like a revenge thing, but they're still married.

 

0:15:58.4 S1: You know that... That's illegal for her. It's literally illegal. And so him and have them brought it... Yeah. Also, did she get a face transplant or something, why would something... Being few years old as an adult mean that you were recognizable as a about... She's probably gained a little weight or

 

0:16:23.3 S2: I've shared that summer hair color or whatever, but it still... It's awesome.

 

0:16:26.8 S1: It's been five years and she's 27. It's not like it's been 20 years, so you know, 20 years and six maybe sins. Yeah, you know, things are a little bit different then, but... Yeah. This is just crazy to me. I'm flabbergasted. So obviously, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, most of us are set the house on fire with him inside of it, only probably... Not seriously, airline. You don't have to come from me. To the murder, most I saw this letter and what kind of also pulled me out into this are people's expectations on what they own of a person or a person's likeness or of a person's image once they are in a relationship or a marriage with somebody. And I think that was kind of interesting on this, because he obviously says, You are my wife, I took these pictures, therefore, you willingly took the photos in their minds, so they're like a gift. I can do what I want with them, but stuff like this happens, and it's not just with you getting posts on the internet, it's sharing with buddies, it's doing this and doing that. All of those things that happen.

 

0:18:03.6 S1: And most of the stories I end up hearing on stuff like this or the dudes doing it, you know, girlfriends and wives and women as well, and so that's always really interesting to me in where do you create that boundary and why do some people think it just doesn't exist. Yeah, I don't even know how to... Where to start here? So I'm trying to... 'cause I agree with you every that that was the first thing that struck me was like, wow, this... This really shows this husband's amines in terms of what he believes is acceptable, 'cause no one... I mean, not no one, but this doesn't seem like someone who was like, This is gonna really piss off my wife, I'm gonna do it to torment her, given his sort of slack job response of not understanding why there was a problem. And so what I find myself imagining is like, This has to be a man who like This can't be the only way in which He that doesn't respect her autonomy for her independence and control over her own self and image. So I'm assuming that there are other things that he does that might fall into the same category, 'cause in terms of practical advice, I've been...

 

0:19:20.6 S1: For me, this is such a deal breaker that I would be out the door, but also I'm like, She must... They've been together for this long, lost, the other things that he's done that kind of make her go like, I'm not just leaving because there would have been other ones, so then how do you go about communicating to someone who doesn't understand this, this is super wrong, and super upsetting, 'cause that's the only way you could move past it, as if you actually change this piece of that person who paston personally, as my assumption is that this woman has been with this man through other things that he's done that I also would never accept in a relationship. So I'm taking myself out of the perspective someone post of the Kenny picture of me, first of all, they don't exist 'cause I've never worn on my life, but someone posted a picture, a naked picture of me on the internet, if it was a stranger, I would like see them and do all the things and bring the pain, but if it was like my partner, I mean, there's no way that I would ever be with a person who did that, so I can't even really conceive of this, but I'm like, I'm assuming that she must have there must be other things that he does that she can kind of look past, 'cause I don't think this just comes out of no...

 

0:20:40.3 S2: What sounds good? You think it sounds like a piece of a pattern rather than just a one-off thing...

 

0:20:45.7 S1: I do at all. It would be a pretty extreme. Not to me. Okay, let me... A good question then, would you guys be okay if it was the same pictures, but cropped, so you can't see it.

 

0:20:58.1 S2: That's what I was wondering because by the language, it sounds like he didn't even hide her face or cut her off at the chin or something like that, that I just... I can't

 

0:21:08.8 S1: Still your boating that you... I just think in this particular case, yet again, it shows men do not understand what it means to be a woman and what it needs to be vulnerable, because they have never felt it themselves. It's like the guys who don't understand how scary it is to walk alone at night because they're not scared, they don't understand what it means to have... In a lot of ways, our bodies are commodities, and we get picked on and pulled part for every little... Every little thing we're too skinny, were too big, or two, they don't understand that because they've never had to deal with that. They can be a person without being a body, so I don't know that he is... Iceland also, my question is, What do you get out of this? Right. So is he posting this to be like, You know, you can...

 

0:22:14.8 S2: Return is a very interesting sub-culture, I don't know the bikini up Reddit, but I can only imagine the comments that are there. So

 

0:22:26.9 S1: This is like... Hold on.

 

0:22:28.6 S2: He said I did it for a forecast on my phone, so you guys keep talking having a look it up while we also... He did it in a throw away account, which I guess he just doing an author on, he knew that this was something he shouldn't be doing

 

0:22:42.2 S1: What I got that, I got that she was using a throw away account, she untreated

 

0:22:50.6 S2: Then he's... Yeah, anyway, but just that's like I'm doing it for the gram kind of thing, I'm doing it for the up votes putting pictures of my wife, new wife. She said there were pictures from their honeymoon... Yeah, yeah, so he took the pier from their honeymoon, put them on Reddit.

 

0:23:14.3 S1: This is totally gonna mess up my Reddit thing, but... Okay, your bikini. Key bottom Twitter, which makes me laugh. Bikini, bikini body, the Kinney Tito with Kinsella. So that's what pops up. So there could be a million... And quite frankly, the Sponge Bob ones is the most per... I'm just gonna be a... Was not even looking at the other ones. But yeah, hilarious. I actually feel it is just very like... Is there even a... What's the point in her asking this 'cause...

 

0:23:54.3 S2: I don't know, Amish has a right to be upset. It's basically... Yeah.

 

0:23:58.4 S1: Yeah, and I... Because he poker, it's not a big deal. Or if it was me, I'd be proud. If it was me, I'd be so proud of how that I look, he's told her all these things she has to ask to see if she really has all talk over her own body in her own image.

 

0:24:16.1 S2: He said The, I took some of them down, but she's not sure if he took all of

 

0:24:21.9 S1: The downer of it to the one... Everybody has different deal breakers within their relationship, so I think what she's really asking is, is it okay for me to make this my deal-breaker? Which I would say definitely, yes. Yes, yeah, because it's not just about the pictures, right, if it was just about the pictures, that would be one thing, but it is about the intent and the district or in posting the pictures, is he posting them to say, Oh my God, look what a hot babe that I pulled... You know, is he posting them just to say, Oh yeah, I'm gonna be a part of this group that does this. Is he posting them? Because he just doesn't think about it at all. Either way, she, who is his wife, who you would think he cared about did not factor into the thought at all of the process, and that to me is what... You know, you always say that cheating is the symptom, not a... Whatever, this is a... Of something bigger, which again, just one pattern.

 

0:25:29.4 S2: Just the fact that he did this right after their honeymoon, that's supposed to be the time when you're the most connected the most together, the most protective or whatever, and he's like, Yeah, look at what I... Look at you, I just, I can't wrap my head around it. This is so...

 

0:25:50.4 S1: Alright, so what the plan for her feet back. Okay, that's it.

 

0:25:57.5 S2: Back, move. File there you go. To

 

0:26:00.5 S1: The past a little bit. I might go change the laws, you have to lose your living space... I wonder if they have children at... 'cause there are also red, it's about places where you can put bodies in

 

0:26:17.3 S2: There.

 

0:26:18.5 S1: So we've heard... So we've heard to me the larger question that this bus up for me is not just deal breakers in terms of behavior, but deal breakers in terms of like how much can you be misunderstood and still have intimacy in other ways? And I think that this happens sometimes with like if you're in a heterosexual relationship, maybe you feel like you're a woman and your husband just cannot understand what it is to be a woman or a vice versa, maybe you are a person of color in a relationship with a white person and you're like, This person can just never understand what it is to be like, maybe you are still in the blank Adnan, religious dress, political differences, social difference, that's different values, people's lines are really different, but what if your relationship... As I assume this one has to be, if they haven't been divorced already, what if your relationship has great things, but there is this one category in which you feel so deeply unseen, un-respected and un-understood. How do you make that work? How you take this one category where you are like... When I tell people that you do this thing, they think I should murder you, so how do we get over this? Right, that the...

 

0:27:38.3 S1: Is really interesting, 'cause I think that I haven't had the experience of dating someone who ever really... Who was... Who had even one category that was so different from me that I was like, Well, I did my first boyfriend and we broke up obviously, but I think that that's different people I know A for you... And you talk a lot about how you and your husband have really different opinions on certain things, but clearly there are other parts of your relationship that work for you, and so... And to me, this is just something that it could be any other difference, but this is from the point of view of someone who just feels very, very deeply misunderstood and there is a huge gap, and to me that just... That's intimacy destroying and trust destroying this particular one, and I just think it's such a limit case, but clearly there are thriving relationships even where there is one thing about which you do not agree or you don't understand each other and... Is that different? What were the boundaries there? I guess I

 

0:28:40.3 S2: Shotwell have some trust issues here too, sorry or...

 

0:28:44.4 S1: Oh my God, how would you not have trust issues

 

0:28:46.7 S2: As she say, I don't know if he took them all down, because whatever conversation she had with him, he's still saying he's like, Okay, fine, I'll take them down, but it's not a big deal, which that response would make me feel like, did he really take them down? Did he take all of them down except for the ones I got a lot of likes. You know what I mean? He's not taking this seriously. And she's like, I still feel betrayed. I don't know what to think. So that just tells me that he did not respect her... Her, her pain at all. So how do you run said If that's the only thing, say that's the only thing in their whole relationship that's a bump in the road, how do you balance that out, how do you as...

 

0:29:27.1 S1: Okay, so this is really weird, but I have a total romance tie in here. So I had never read any of the bridge in books. I realized this seems like a really weird transition, but I promise I'm on... Bring us around. Okay, so I had never read any of the bridge or to books. I watched season one. Liked it. Loved season two. It's a very divisive season. Some people love it, some people hate it. Well, I'm important to noble and I had resisted reading the books because my TVR is quite frankly like everyone else is completely out of control, and the school bus or so my dogs are going the insane... So I apologize. So I had resisted that I was important to noble, and they had him in a box set and I have no impulse control when it comes to boxes, I finally broke down and bought all of the stupid Bridger 10 books... Right. And I'm reading them and I'm like, This is RADIUS. Fuck it. I was completely and utterly shocked, there's a hero who says to the heroin basically, you cannot deny me my constable... Right, and I'm sitting there going, This is a hero.

 

0:30:42.7 S1: This is the joke that we like, what a fun... Right, and then I am... One of the other books, the hero is very upset with the hero in any grabs are arm and you're in his head during the scene, he grabs her arm and he's thinking about the fact that he's probably bruising her, and he's not exactly happy about that, but he kind of is because He is that pissed off at her and I am just like, what the Freund... Then you have the whole... If you watched the first season or the book, no surprise her spoilers ahead if you haven't, but you've got the heroin who basically gets the hero drum and has sex with him when he is not able to consent. Right. So I flip through and I'm like, these books have got to be... When were these books written? I'm like, I have to go look, ever written in the early 2000s it... And I was surprised because it really kinda reminded me a lot of the romance books that I would read, especially historical in the 80s. In the early 90s, right. SymSys, to bring us back to what we're talking about.

 

0:32:00.6 S1: I think that, especially as his hero, women who are socialized as women in the United States within the patriarchy and everything else, to bring out the big words, you've got expectations and what you are expected to be able to put up with, and it's never gonna always go your way, which is grown up part, but I think... Especially like, I think back to what it was probably like when my mom got married, or let alone as early as the Regency when we were property, but all of that has never factored in it. So when you get to relationships where it is 95% good and 5%, you're like, What the fuck... You've got that balance that I think women, wives, speaking from the perspective of a life, I think that there are balances and considerations that wives make that I don't know that husbands do, quite frankly. And so that's kind of what it comes down to. So when I read this letter from Reddit, what I hear is that person not sure where this fits in that is that the 5% that I just need to figure out how to deal with, or does this crash on over to the 6%? So I can say, Fuck you, right.

 

0:33:42.0 S1: And that is so concerning to me, and I think of myself as super independent and super feminist and things like that, and I look at my daughter who's 19 and quite frankly, should scare the shit out of everybody. I love her to death, but what she expects out of a relationship and what she's willing to call out, I'm like, I can't even imagine having grown up in the 80s and they're only 90s, I'm like, I can't even imagine having done that, and then I think to my mom and I'm like, Oh God, they were still beating their wives with impunity at this point in time, right. So I think we are all still making that transition, but I think the kids... Even though this woman is 27, I think the kids are making changes, incremental changes that women of my generation still metathes. So that is my announce.

 

0:34:43.7 S2: He was emotionally unavailable, and I was just like.

 

0:34:46.2 S1: Alright, I started in the beginning again, my 23-year-old.

 

0:34:50.8 S2: Well, she has a long line of partners who she has broken up with for various reasons by her late as he was emotionally unavailable and he was... And she recognized it at 23 and I was very proud of her.

 

0:35:05.4 S1: She Croat yes. Same thing, I look at some stuff that my daughter will say and I will be like, Wow... Yes, you're completely right. And I'm sure she looks at me and goes, John, am... I look at my mother and I'm like, Hello. So yeah, baby steps, maybe hopefully, but this chick needs to burn him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm

 

0:35:31.9 S2: Wondering, Erin, about this conversation that they must have had, and I wonder if it was one of those is not a big deal, or if he was just like pissed that she confronted him about it, 'cause those are two different responses, if it's like, Oh, I didn't mean anything, I'll take it down kind of thing, then I could see her or being like, Wow, he's a really good guy, and he's great with this and whatever, but if it was a pissed response like, Why are you being such a bitch? But it or whatever. That's a whole different thing. So I wish we had a little bit more information about what that conversation went like, 'cause like you said, if it's something where obviously this is like... For me would be like, Well, do I see you? But if this is someone who's like, Oh, I can look past if he understands what he did and if he took them all down, and if this not that, because everything else is so great. But if it's responses, Oh, you're being such a bitch about it to do, then that's a whole different... That's a different track. So I wish we had little bit more information, but you're a...

 

0:36:33.9 S1: It's a difference between ignorance and as Hilary, right? Yeah, ignorance is truly not understanding or knowing something... It is like... For example, early on when I was with my husband, he used to give me crap every time we parked in a parking garage and I parked exactly by the door, I was like, I would drive around extra time just to find a spot that was right by the door right by that are well, right by that spot, and he's like, It's not gonna kill on a walk, and that was his only... Ferenc is a 63 dude, and I'm like, No, this is a safety issue. So he has never given me shit about that since it, so that is ignorance to me as Hollis knowing it and still doing it, I am honestly curious if the dude looks at the photos and maybe they're like, her face is hidden or she can't see, so he's... Honestly, in ignorance, thought it wouldn't be a big deal because you couldn't tell that she was...

 

0:37:41.2 S2: I wonder if you went on my asshole in a hat, doesn't Atticus I put my wife's pictures on to see if we can find that 'cause...

 

0:37:51.4 S1: Well, what you said, it also really makes me think... I think that's a great example about your husband, and it makes me wonder when we choose... I understand that thinking and acting are different, but to me, thinking precedes acting, or at least it should, if anyone else is involved, and I think that to me, there is an ass-holism to assuming that you know why someone is doing something and then chasing them about it instead of asking or in posting a picture that you think is totally fine if someone else without asking, and I feel like the piece is so often missing to me in so many of these questions that I... Am I the asshole is... People are saying, Am I the asshole? And should I apologize now? And then the responses are like, You are an asshole, and you should have asked in the beginning, and I know it's hard to say ask if you don't know that a thing is a thing, but I don't think it's unreasonable to be like before you literally post a picture of another person's naked body, you should understand that. You should ask, I think you should do that even before you post a picture of anything about...

 

0:39:10.4 S1: Or someone's home or someone's home address, or... Those are all things that should be asked. And I think that the expectations are just so low that like it's not actually about determining Is what you did, are you an asshole or are you not an asshole, you are an asshole even before you did it for not asking, and like, Good God, if you don't know something, and you think you assume something's fine, maybe that should be the thing that should be the indication to ask, because the things that you are like, I can't see any problem with this, that should be a red flag because you are limited by always your own experience your own feelings, and it's something that you're doing and you're like, I can't see anything wrong with this, and it involves another person, you have to be like, Well, they're a separate person with a separate brand, and they might be able to see something wrong with this so instead of doing the thing and then being told I'm an asshole and then apologizing and changing my behavior, which is good, I could just ask in the first place and avoid causing the harm to that person that comes from like...

 

0:40:17.1 S1: We're all ignorant, we all have immense ignorance about what it's like to live other people's experiences and lives, and I fundamentally think that step one should always just be asking and that all of these people are on step three, the AI, the asshole is always... After doing a behavior that you could have just asked about.

 

0:40:38.5 S2: Is it so hard for me in a situation like this, it makes me feel like he didn't pack because he knew what the answer would be... Yeah, Chacon, I put these new photos of your look, she's gonna say No, I swore knows this.

 

0:40:56.0 S1: But yeah, that whole played rather ask for forgiveness and Punisher permission sometimes. It's not the route to go. My man.

 

0:41:04.1 S2: Sometimes I walk around

 

0:41:05.7 S1: The... That's what... And it's weird because I like that I just say something that I try... Just take at the time, and there are some things where you're gonna get the response that's like, No, that's fine. Like the other day, my girlfriend's mom's very sweetly texted me to be like, I've had these things that I think of getting rid of and lost, you might want them, 'cause she knows I bike and they were taking things, so I was like, Yes, I would love in my head, I was like, Yes, I would love them. But before I wrote back, I just asked my girlfriend, Hey, is it cool if I take your mom up on this really generous offer, 'cause I couldn't think of any reason why it wouldn't be cool, but also she's not my mom, and so my girlfriend was like, Yeah, no problem. That's why did you even ask? And I was like, Oh no, you just never know what people she is... In that case, it was like, I didn't need to ask, but I feel like even when you don't need to ask What time now knows about me is she will never do something with regard to my family without me being in the loop, and then she can go ahead and then feel confident.

 

0:42:03.2 S1: But she doesn't have to worry that I'm gonna have these relationships with her parents that might be doing damage, but I don't know, 'cause I don't ask, so I feel like... It's never a bad thing to ask. No one's ever gonna be like, How dare you ask me if I'm okay with that, get out of my site. I just

 

0:42:20.8 S2: Actually that that happened. But again, generally, yes.

 

0:42:24.4 S1: Right there, my fitness.

 

0:42:31.1 S2: Yeah, that's a letter.

 

0:42:33.3 S1: You know what, it's a small letter that was something that we all initially agreed on, but there is a lot behind it, so... Yeah.

 

0:42:40.2 S2: It's probably one of the shortest ones we've had with other was loaded one that we've seen... That's so forward it. But what we really want, guys, just to hear from you, we love Reddit, we love slate, we love all of those columns, but we really wanna hear from you guys, so please send us your letters, you can submit them on our anonymous form at diemen rider dot com, you can slide into our DMs, you can send a carrier pigeon in Telegram Moreno, whatever you wanna do, we wanna hear from you 'cause you wanna help you with your issues and pretend we're experts on all the things. So please reach out to us. But that was a doozy. That was a... Boy, we were chatting earlier about being authors and everything, and I think it's good 'cause our chat topic, this meat is about the challenges of publishing and the unwritten rules of being a romance author. What do you think? Some of those are... You guys even have any unwritten rules, you in five million times, if you do everything in your book and they are not talking about the murders, I always wanna respond with a Yes, I have blend up many people, but you will have to deal with that particular question and you need to get a PAT response and you need to have a game face for when they ask you things that are going to be a little shocking, 'cause that's part of the job.

 

0:44:04.1 S1: Or they want all you all about their hats little award as well. About the state. Yeah, I write some lifestyle and King stuff, and I know a lot about some people. That is shocking to me. You have to meet... I have never been asked by anyone if I do the sex things that are in my book, and I think if someone did ask me, I would be like, That is such an inappropriate question, I can't believe you just feel comfortable asking to be a... Okay, there must be something about me 'cause I... Yeah, I have shocked on your behalf, Anastasia candy coded off buckets compared to yours, and when it comes to the sex stuff and still... Yeah, completely. One of the interesting things... Okay, so one written rules of being a romance author, I think when I started, it was a very strongly supported unwritten rule of being a romance author that you didn't talk about anything controversial, you didn't talk politics, you didn't talk about, or you just basically sat there and got your head patches was the advice that I think I got. A-Casita has definitely changed. Thank goodness. And especially like if you see some of the...

 

0:45:45.1 S1: Like I will say just about anything social media-wise, I don't have a problem with expressing my opinions, but I will tell you some of the publishing threads that have been out there that have been talking about workloads and money and all of those things, and those are the ones that told me make me very nervous about going because I do think that that's one of the unwritten rules, is still not talking about your contracts, not talking about money, not talking about how many books you got coming to it. Yeah, some of it's contractual, but some of it is just the care. The Aegis table was considered taboo. I think that I would say as a person who does both self and traditional publishing, that's the way they wanted... Of course, we want that because they can make you feel like, Oh look, I'm getting the world when they actually gave the world to that other person, usually a guy who doesn't sell half of what you do, and they're gonna be... Because he's gonna ask for it and they want us to not ask for it. Right, anaesthesia. Oh, that hashtag was awesome. That was really interesting.

 

0:47:11.8 S1: And there was one that I saw the other day that was talking about advances and things like that, and I'm like, I've gotten books with advances, I've gotten... I still get books that don't have advances that are traditional, and I'm like... To me, you have to kind of weigh the pros and can of that. The ones that I want the most advanced from are the ones that I don't expect them to support, but if they do, I'm going to be really pleasantly supervised, and the ones that I'm like, I'm okay with getting a low advanced for no advance, or the ones that I'm like, I know that I know I will still make my money, 'cause I got a mortgage to pay and I like to eat, so... Yeah, those are... And I'm gonna be honest, I would never do a New York book without an advance, and it has to be a certain number, because I know what I can make, if I self-publish that bore, have to make it meaningful for me in order to basically give... That income and not control it.

 

0:48:17.7 S2: How about you guys at every point about controversial being controversial, that was the thing I heard so much when I first started in 2011, 2014, and even recently, I have a couple of friends who've been around a little longer than me who are like, Oh, I can't believe that you talked about that I'm like, I'm like at first, my readers know just where I'm reading my stuff that I don't shy it with our topics, if they follow me on social media, they know that I don't shy away from topics, and if they have a problem with that then there are other authors out there that they can read it, whenever I talk to a publisher, when I was looking at publishers to work with with, he was like, if they say anything about my social media, that's gonna make me ill breaker for me, 'cause I'm not gonna change my personality or my way, my way of contributing to the discussion for a book contract, so if that's a deal breaker for them, then that's just something I'll have to live with because it's part of who I am. I'm not gonna not talk about social issues, so...

 

0:49:20.0 S2: Yeah, that always gonna rub me the wrong way then people are not going... No, you have to pretend the things in the world aren't happening in or just tell your books or be... Whatever, if you're not comfortable talking about stuff, that's fine, that's great, but if you're talking about it on your private profile, but not... That's fine, but don't tell other people know how to do it, and that really met me the wrong way. Yeah.

 

0:49:46.0 S1: This whole chat topic is interesting to me because I think when I first started, when I wrote my first book and publish it, I didn't know a single offer... I didn't know anyone in Romans and I didn't know anyone, so I actually was not aware of any. Of course, I know now that these things are talked about, but I didn't go into it thinking like, no one gave me that advice, 'cause no one gave me any advice 'cause I just didn't know anybody, and I think that watching it as often happens to me are there probably are unspoken rules, but I'm just not paying attention to them, 'cause I feel like what happens over and over is... The way I learn about an unspoken rule is all the people being like That stupid... Maybe just 'cause of who I follow. So the way I would learn it's not considered proper to talk about how much money you make is from a bunch of people sharing how much money they made in Dennehy, do we keep letting them tell us that we shouldn't talk about how... As I feel like these are all things that I know now are things, but they're just not real, just none of them are real.

 

0:50:54.4 S1: Anytime there's... What are some of the rules? I'm like, Well, they aren't any actually, to follow a rule is to relate to the idea that it exists and sometimes I also point out that when we talk about money, we should talk about it amongst ourselves, we do not need to talk about that like nobody needs to send out a newsletter may have to a bunch of readers explaining how you're a multi-millionaire and you don't need to do that, you need to... About your books, you don't need to dunk on people, we should talk about it amongst ourselves in our private forms as a neta will help other authors. Yeah, so not be... Look at how much I owe... Well.

 

0:51:46.8 S2: There was a conversation in a couple of years ago, I think right before lock down, maybe a few months before that, about somebody... I can remember the author, I wouldn't say them anyway, but they had... They were like, I'm building my dream home. Readers helped me make this tap in and there was a debate about whether or not, 'cause it was like they were going through the process of like, Here's the pot of land that we bought, and here's the foundation for the house, and here are the walls going up and it was very much like a step-by-step thing, and some people were like, Oh my gosh, you're just flaunting how much you've made and readers are gonna hate you for that, nowhere like This was a combination of a life-long dream, and it's really, really cool that you're sharing it with them. And I was like, what side of the isle people were on? It was very, very interesting to me. You know, I thought it was really neat that she was sharing this process 'cause she was like, Here's this beautiful concept, I... Oh my gosh, I never thought to be able to do this, it wasn't like, Look how much money I have and I'm building a luxury home, it was just like...

 

0:52:43.1 S2: You know what I mean? And that's how I took it, but there were other people who were really on her case about it and like, Oh, you shouldn't be doing in that readers or... And I was like, Wow, and that was a really hot debate for about a week in a win... Or

 

0:52:56.4 S1: Like that though too. I wonder how much of that regional cultural acceptance also factors into that, like me being from the Midwest, you even talking about that I was so uncomfortable. I was so uncomfortable. I agree. Because you just don't do that. Right, so it is the... I don't know it just... So I wonder... And here's the thing, so I wonder how much like that, 'cause you guys are both born and bred... East Coasters? Yes. Is the owner on... Yeah.

 

0:53:40.5 S2: You are a heart transplant.

 

0:53:42.1 S1: Right. I was born in Baltimore, but I grew up in Michigan. So you don't care. You came out for better things than it

 

0:53:52.4 S2: Actually... Remember, were you born?

 

0:53:54.9 S1: I was born here in Texas. Yeah, okay. So it is, I do think that when it comes to certain things, I wonder how much that factors in to things that are regionally acceptable, generation and generational that comes into it, and then I think there is also... I think a class thing that comes into it as well, and I find that interesting, I think all of those things factor into it, like me myself, growing up very poor and coming out, it makes me feel weird just because you spent the entire time you were growing up trying to make it appears as you were exactly like everybody else that you were... Right. And that probably could just be a me thing, it Lexi... You said you as well, it's absolutely a one that's a more overall for kid thing, but... Yeah, and then the people that I have known who've grown up more wealthy are more likely to just be like... We don't talk about money, so it's just sort of the people in the middle that are really gonna... Money, everyone, the person us are like, Oh my God. So yeah, yeah, I think that's another interesting thing is what becomes...

 

0:55:18.0 S1: Talking about something because it brings you joy and you wanna share that joy, and what becomes... Talking about something because you sort of wanna say, We look what I did, and I think that comes down not... But you can't control other people's reaction to it, like some people will become offended or think it's Bragg when an author says, Hey, I hit the USA today, right. Or time to it, I teenage more. And yeah, and that's not something you can control is what other people's reaction to your happy news, and then you have the people that are like, Oh, please share when you have something happy 'cause I wanna celebrate with you. And sometimes I mean it, sometimes they don't, so... It's all that weirdness. Yeah, I will say, I think that one of the unwritten rules are, for the most part, not to talk shit about the genre or other romance authors, and to me, that sort of comes into the categories of either professional behavior, which I can see, but I think there is a lot of gatekeeping that comes into their too, because I think some people will see a calling out of something that needs to be called out and say, Well, you're being unprofessional, and those are completely different things too, but I definitely think there is an unwritten rule about talking, when it is proper to talk about your genre or your fellow authors.

 

0:56:58.1 S2: I dot e in the easel, get out of bashing a book that someone else loved, and I'm not doing as... It was problematic because it was.

 

0:57:07.2 S1: That's a different story. That is a very different thing, but calling something that you know a great many people adore trash and making it part of your brand to just rash something, and this is me talking specifically about something like 50 shades, why... If you didn't enjoy it, you didn't try it, that's fine, you don't have to tell everybody how much you didn't like something, or everybody who love that book is made you see that too, and I like really? 'cause a

 

0:57:41.7 S2: Lot of those readers are reading your stuff and that I signed a... I don't get it either. Either.

 

0:57:49.4 S1: I think that's one of those things. So figuring out where that line is though, it takes a while to figure out where that is, I think... I also think social media, those kinds of things, 'cause I also don't really understand what people are... I think it's unkind often, but I feel like when I see people doing it, the sense that I get is that they think that they have to specify that for you to understand who they are as a person, and so often I'm like, I think that you just need to not care so much that every single stranger on the internet knows who you are as a person, because if that would just go away, then you wouldn't have to do things like, Here's my hot take, and then you're hosts the same as as and others and it's very basic and silly, or you don't have to shit on something just to be like, Hey, I'm not like other people who like this genre because I don't like this thing, like the world just much a better place if people had internal senses of self and self-esteem, I think it would help so much.

 

0:58:51.3 S2: I was just thinking along those lines. When people are like... Or you see those articles on Showtime interviews, people who are like, Yeah, I wrote a roasts, not like other Romans, not like 5. It's not like whatever, it's like, Oh, corallo.

 

0:59:10.5 S1: Don't have to put somebody else down to make yourself thinker... Yeah, but when we were talking about you don't wanna try other authors, I will say that, and you should never do that, but we all turn into... When they the buckle trash each other and you don't know the other person is, would we all turn into detective super slut? Detect is... We'll spend five hours a growth person said and in the pre... Pretty much. Oh, I hate sub-tweet. Oh my god, I...

 

0:59:46.1 S2: Somewhere frustrating, especially when they're about something that's harm to un-problematic if someone's being harmful and problematic, name and shame. I have no problem, Maasai bigots, if you're just gonna vague tweet them, then that doesn't help me figure out if I'm following them, what they're following me, if it's somebody that I've endured, if it's something I ostentatious bear the same, performative, think it's the Santo people who... It...

 

1:00:12.3 S1: And it might be the same. Tammy, goodness, Lexi, thank you so much for coming and hanging out with all Lebanon approve, posting naked pictures of your wife from your honeymoon with our potential, your husband... Just don't do it. No, you want me on anyone toes up your dog enemy... God, your dog is passed out cold on... It's gonna be like in the dossier, are there taking up her all over the place. She's my daughter, my youngest. Got favorite subject.

 

1:00:56.5 S2: That's so cool.

 

1:00:58.4 S1: Alright, let you tell everybody again, where they can find you and what looks... They need to pick up. The easiest place by me is... Let's see, Lexicon, that's where everything is. You can find all my symptoms in... Are all my information? My latest book is The men from Santa, and then I have a book to me, I didn't call the lighting, it's my happiest book ever, no one gets... So, wow. You might wanna revise that to get you to do one condition... Alright, well, we love having you. And later, Thank you so much for coming and hanging out with us. Please do send in your letters, we've got an anonymous form on the website, your romance writer dot com, you can email us at advice at Roman... Wait, advice, dear romance writer, dot com, I got that. We're on social media, you can send those through DMs, we want to hear from you, so that we can give you some questionable advice from this trio of happily ever after enthusiasts. Thank you guys so much for listening and spending some time with us today, my is... Thank you so much for subscribing to Dear romance writer.

 

1:02:23.0 S1: Remember to keep sending in those letters, I denominator dot com, we can't wait to tell you what to do. Your romance writer is part of the frolic Podcast Network. Find more podcasts you love, framed podcast.