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0:00:11.9 S1: Welcome to do a romance writer were three writers, or in this case, one, always give you happily ever after offer questionable advice for all of your relationship work and life problems. I am Zara and my co-hosts, Avery Flin and repairs can't be with us today. So I was just not on me, but I have two amazing guests with me in Susan's got Shelly and Shenton mirror, and I'm so glad you guys are here, but trying to get tenure for a while. Welcome.


0:00:37.5 S2: Thank you. Relate, yeah, I'm a fan of the podcast and I am very excited to be on and hanging out with you and with John Tel today, so... That's awesome, awesome.


0:00:49.4 S1: So tell everybody about yourselves where they can find you, What you got coming up. This is your hour now...


0:00:57.9 S2: Well, I'm so got Shelly. I live in Philly, I've been writing for about 12 years or so. I write happily ever after for everyone, and they often have a sports plopped... 'cause I enjoy that as well. Hockey, football, rugby and Rugby, Chantal. And are co-writing a reply rugby series is awesome. And yeah, so that's been my focus, or dual projects have been my focus for the past year or so... Yeah, that's been so much fun. And I'll stop talking now because I'll just keep going about how great it is for an hour, so I'm gonna take it away. Soon, I'm on to there, and I haven't been writing as long, in fact, I believe my first book was published in 2019 because of a shut down and everything, I have lost all concept of time, right. But for... Yeah, the last I have been now... Over a year, a year and a half. Yeah, it's almost a year and a half. Yeah, yeah. Cause


0:02:02.6 S1: So running together. Yeah.


0:02:04.1 S2: We started writing together and... Yeah, we've just had so much fun, and that's where our focus has been, has been our joint projects.


0:02:13.1 S1: 'cause frankly, it's been more fun to write... Takes the series is awesome that I'm a fan Saigon for coming today. Yeah, it's pretty listings here, we're gonna chat a bit and then we'll get into our letter, but the world is on fire, how are you guys... What do you guys do to take your mind off of the world being on fire other than... Right, I know you guys... I know you like nature, Susan, you're always out in the nature or sour Instagram. You're out somewhere beautiful.


0:02:43.8 S2: I like being outside and walking around definitely, and I like being around trees and things, as much as I love being a city girl, I definitely be like greenery, all the Green is not my favorite color at all, in the same...


0:02:58.5 S1: Patrick says, you can't say


0:03:00.4 S2: That. I don't know. So definitely getting out and walking around and try to look pretty calming things, and then also I've been obsessed with British TV, is it... So I'm watching old episodes of task master and a random British TV shows. And I have my little... Of course, I be extra about it, and I have a Scottish mug and I have a... In English or Scottish or Irish, T as I do.


0:03:30.0 S1: I just kind... Allyson thing... Well, she need completely curing the aisle.


0:03:34.7 S2: That's... That's my thing is I do a wind up with the Redis accent. You'll know why? I love that.


0:03:46.8 S1: How are you dealing with everything... So I really limit what I will read news in the morning, and I limit what I read, and then I really do like I have to limit or I get depressed. Yeah, the doom scrolling. Can


0:04:08.0 S2: I just do it enough to have an idea of what's going on in the world, and so I just really limited and I will...


0:04:19.0 S1: I actually... We have a dog, I walk the dog every day, getting out and just... Walking is a huge, huge, huge thing. I don't know if we'll get out today because she doesn't like the rain and... It's a rename here. Yeah, special. It doesn't like the rain, but


0:04:38.1 S2: Yeah, and I read a lot and then I've got a couple of kids. So whatever I got going on and I get involved in that. So


0:04:48.6 S1: Yeah, reading is definitely one of my go-tos I've been watching trying to catch up on stuff too, 'cause I'm... I'm writing as well, but yeah, it's really hard on with you guys, and it might be easier or not easier, but better when you have a partner to write with because you have... You're like, Hey, Al, accountability Coalition. It feels like you have built in support system 'cause it's true with everything that's going on, it's so easy, at least for me to freeze up when I go to do something because I start thinking about stuff and what can I do to help this... We're gonna do the help that and... Right, yeah. So I try to, like you said, Jon, tall, I look at... There's a Reddit feed that Mr. X gave me about a month ago and everything, and crane started that basically sort of curates the Twitter information on Twitter to people who are more reliable and so on sources, so I look at that, get up-to-date and what happened overnight and that kind of thing, and then I put it aside, 'cause otherwise the first week or so, I was constantly on they're reading at reaching, and it's a lot.


0:05:57.6 S1: And you feel like, what can you do? Now you give where you can, and you donate where you can't do what you can, but at some point you have to eat and take a shower, actions for a while.


0:06:12.8 S2: The unhealthy side effects of stress, I'm really trying to fix because I don't want high blood pressure at my age, and I might know... Yeah, that's another thing too, is like, okay, you can spend 10 minutes doing this, but then... But yeah, do otherwise to the onshore our friend Conner, her counter-Peterson had said, I think he found it somewhere, that was months ago, like months months ago, that it's not doom scrolling your hope question 'cause you're trying to find something good.


0:06:43.2 S1: Something to... Oh yeah, yeah.


0:06:45.6 S2: So I think my husband's like, You're doing string again, my inquests quest is, it's hard and then I'll come upon a comic drift like the awarded and I'll get a moment of happiness and laughter and then... I don't know, but it's really hard to find that balance of staying informed without... And figuring out where you could try to do the most good and then not let it take... Take you a cause stuff.


0:07:17.7 S1: I'm sorry, I meditate to... I actually used to meditate for years and years, and honestly again, with the shutdown, I quit meditating, I was like, I can't... I just like, I know. But I started meditating again. So each morning, I meditate for 15 minutes. And that really makes a huge difference. And Mr. Mayor and I, on the weekends, we walk... We walk about three and a half miles, and that's where we just... The two of us, we just chat about about everything. He calls it like, that's where we solve all the problems of the world on the weekends, just on the weekends, but it really does make a difference if the weather's really, really lousy and we don't walk, but it makes... I notice it makes a big difference in my eye, that's good to find this, but we've been baking a few months in your posts, you're a... Yeah, I didn't post last week, we made or we made a... Mr. X made this raisin. Not love, I actually have a piece of it here. I'm gonna finish it. Really, really good. He does like breads. For some reason, a couple of months ago, I was like, I wanna make bread, and he doesn't really eat broad, but he decided to make some, and now, of course, he's eating it because he made it, but I'm like, You do the bread, I'll do other things.


0:08:47.4 S1: I make funds and roles and all that stuff, it... That's been sort of therapeutic, your hands are busy, your mind is busy 'cause you're timing things and all kinds of stuff, and it's been interesting to figure out what you didn't think you were capable of making or doing before that... Oh, I can do this. That's so difficult. But you can do it. Yeah, no, it's been good to find something, but yeah, it's been enjoying... You guys have had some great releases, but enjoy your stuff and lots of friends releasing stuff and trying to it my way. In my eye. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, speaking of which we have... I'm part of this... Excuse me, anthology. That's coming out in April, talk about wanting to do something for the world. Were exactly, it's 50 authors raising money for Ukraine and... Oh, awesome. Yeah, and it's called Nightingale, you guys can pre-order it, and I think the cover reveal was on the 21s about the time this arranges, the cover will be up and it's gorgeous. It's so pretty. To see it. That made me feel so good to be a part of that. Yeah.


0:09:53.3 S2: Yeah, telehealth did that.


0:09:55.6 S1: Yeah, the sky Warren, who put it together, and she's a superstar or so when she said, Do you want to... I was like, Yes, anything, 'cause I was like, Let me do something, let me do some free... So you guys be able to look out for that, but let's get into our letter for this week, and we're on, pulled this, I'm not as sure where this came from, let's see... Oh, he came to us through our website. Yeah, thank you guys. We get so few letters and we wanna hear more from our listeners because those are our favorite or favorites, we love interacting with you guys directly, we pull from slate, you pull from it by the asshole and all kinds of places, but when you guys send in your letters, that's when it's like the most gratifying for us, so thank you, you can send them through our website, dormant reader dot com, we have a form there, you can fill out an anonymous... If you wanna stay anonymous, you can slide into our DMs, you can send a carrier pigeon, however you wanna reach out to us and we always want to hear from you.


0:10:51.9 S1: So today's letter, let's see who's from Eddie, and I says... My question is, how do I balance supporting my friend while also respecting the boundaries of her relationship? I have a long distance best friend Beth, we met in college and lived together for a while after school before different opportunities took us to different states, we stay closed despite the distance where in our late 20s now, and Bethesda to a woman she loves very much. Her wife has a strong personality and opinions, while Beth is pretty easy-going and open, so I think they complement each other, but I've noticed over the past few years that Beth started to speak critically of herself a lot when she used to be very confident... Part of it is growing older and more self-aware, but I think part of it comes from her partner pointing out things about that that frustrate her. I don't think these conversations happen often, but they make a big impact. I've only tried to talk to Beth about this once, a few years ago, she told me about an argument that she and her wife had over a difficult social situation, they got trapped in an uncomfortable but not unsafe conversation with some people who had anti-LGBTQ opinions.


0:11:53.8 S1: Her wife sense really early on that the conversation would go bad, it was upset that Beth kept gauging them, that tends to be more idealistic and curious about people, she thought it was worth talking to them, that's explained to me afterwards that this was all her fault for being so naive and gullible and how she needed to change that about herself, her needing to change herself as a scene, I told her, I didn't like that she always left these arguments thinking that everything about her is the problem, that I actually really appreciate her positivity and curiosity, even though it doesn't always work out, I said that I didn't like how her wife talked to her sometimes, which I apologize for later, Beth said, I think I can defend myself at an... Left at that, I don't think she holds a grudge, if anything, I think she's tried to show me how wonderful her wife it is, I just took myself out a letter and from her wife is... I make sure to celebrate Beth whenever I can and gently disagree when she talks about her personality flaws, to clues, you said she appreciates this, even though she isn't convinced they aren't flaws.


0:13:00.8 S1: Things are good between us, but I still have mixed feelings sometimes I wanna talk to Beth more about her negative self-talk, but I'm worried it will sound like criticism of her wife because of the previous conversation. I would really appreciate your advice. I'm single and I haven't had any romantic relationships, so I can't use my personal experience as a guide, thank you for your kind smart work, I enjoy listening to your discussions every week. Sincerely. Addy.


0:13:23.7 S2: Thank you. Add, thank you so much for writing to a... It's a great letter. Yeah, definitely. So what


0:13:29.6 S1: Do you guys think it... Now we put you on the spot. Yeah.


0:13:34.5 S2: That's a hard situation because you wanna be supportive and you never wanna hear somebody speak badly about your friend, and it's very hard when you have someone who will say something negative about themselves, such as like... I have a friend who is always, I'm so stupid, or I'm just... Everything's my fault. Why are you stupid? It's because you've told You are stupid by other people, it's not true, it's almost like the lies we believe about ourselves, but you believe in... That is a hard thing to change because it could be... Is she hearing it just from her partner, or is she hearing those things maybe from other people, maybe... I don't know, it's a hard thing. I think what Addie is doing by celebrating her as much as she can and trying to counter act if Beth were to say... So when I leave... Well, you know, being niue open to possibilities, it's not a bad thing to be curious, it's not a bad thing to be open or to think the best of people... Yeah, you get hurt that way, but it's a better outlook than maybe being cynical all the time, but I don't know how to...


0:14:51.6 S2: I guess my thing would be just every time you hear negative to try to count on her, but don't say it in a way that would be all your wife's wrong, just be like, Well, always found you to be a... Would say.


0:15:04.6 S1: I would say optimistic. Not my... You have different positive...


0:15:09.8 S2: It's about reframing. Isn't the language that we use? Really does matter. And merely. Yeah, yeah. Words or my houses and they have power to it. No, no, I was just... I guess I would be curious because... Why the friend... Why she feels that... Why? She feels she's naive. I feel like the Addie is drawing some conclusions, I don't know if they've actually had the conversation where I... As the partner said, You are naive, or is that


0:15:53.6 S1: A out...


0:15:56.1 S2: That might be something that I could ask is if... She says, I'm so naive. Why do you feel that way? Why do you say that? What makes you say that? I just get a little bit of clarity on what her friends reasoning is...


0:16:20.3 S1: Yeah, I think it came out of that argument about that conversation... At the conversation with the people who were anti-LGBTQ. And so I think that her partner was upset, her wife was upset that she can talking to them and felt that she was being naive for trying to change their minds or whatever... Or Indian, this conversation. And I guess talking about looking at how we frame things, to me, it almost seems like she was looking at the moment as a tea moment of being able to educate and teach, so it really... It sounds like it's two people coming out of a situation from different points of view, neither one is wrong, they're just different and they have different... They can have different results, doesn't necessarily mean one is better than the other, I do think it's... I find it interesting and concerning a bit that this person that Beth, who Addie has known as this sort of confident person, has folded in on herself in the time that... Yes, so totally understand why she's concerned, but I definitely also... She makes a great point, it's difficult to talk to someone about their partner and without...


0:17:44.0 S1: Without giving them an ultimatum, Whether you mean to or not, liketoknowit, I mean that's for like me or them, and you never want to put that kind of a strain on your friendship, so it's difficult, but I think what Susan's saying, reinforcing those positive traits or reframing a non-test those, think those traits is positive rather than the partner, the wife may say, Oh, you're naive, and you can say, Well, I rather think it's optimistic, or I think you're seeing the best in people or whatever it is, reframing it that way, without even mentioning the argument or exactly the way or anything, just sort of, you know, just keep for positive language.


0:18:23.7 S2: And every time you see her making herself smaller or how she's changed from being this was a more confident and having a better opinion of herself, just... I don't know how to frame is gentle cheer leading of or... I don't know, 'cause that's a hard thing, if you see somebody in a relationship and their personality changes, and I think that's the one thing that would be... That it's a bit of a red Esther, you see that. And you see that in situations where there, you know, could be emotional abuse or just mental... Just constantly beating the person down, and it might not be what's happening, it might be certain instances where you had that conversation at the party and maybe your wife was like, Oh, you're so naive, but maybe that was also a way of, you know... Maybe it may be that came from a protective place, maybe not, maybe not an angry... So we don't want you to be in a situation that's going to be hurtful to you, I wanna remove you from it, so I don't know, it's also hard if someone's with someone that you have a hard time with, even if everybody else sees it, but that one person, it's hard for them.


0:19:53.7 S2: It's a fine line, and if you can't... Like for example, if someone's dating this person and all of your friends don't like this person, and all of your friends are kind of saying, But you're not... Right, 'cause you still are into this person, it's... You're gonna lose your friendships rather than lose the person... I just had a... A hard thing to say. And then... Go ahead. No, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, go ahead. No, go. Welland, I think it just, again, it boils down to what you said at the beginning, uses really just continuing to support your friend, what I mean, and to do that, and a loving way and continue to build them up, because if you don't... Like you said, they're gonna cut you up...


0:20:48.1 S1: Yeah, and then they're going to lose that system, probably... I have a friend who, she is in a very unhealthy marriage and has been for, I don't know, 15 years, and there was a point where I would not have been surprised if I got a call saying that she was dead, that's how bad it was, and the only thing I could do was give her resources and talk with her through what her options were, she made choices that I did not think were best for her and... Or her kids. But I continue to support her and I continue and I continue to do it, but it's really, really hard 'cause I know you're about... You wanna just have a magic wand and remain people from danger, but they have to make the choices themselves and it's difficult... Yeah, yeah, go ahead. No, I'm just gonna say it's also thinking about Beth, that it could be a situation where... I know I'm the type of person to internalize negativity more than positivity when someone says something to me, like 50 billion people could say something nice, but if one person said something that touches on a nerve, I internalize it.


0:22:22.8 S1: And that's something that we have to work on is people... Right, who are like that. And it could be that at this conversation happened once or twice, and Beth has internalized it so much, which I think again, goes back into that positive reinforcement thing that AI can do whenever she hears Beth say something or we know their pronouns, whatever. Add here is something that they can say something positive or a good memory of their friendship or one time that stood up to somewhere or out for something, or whatever. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's tough being friends with someone or related to someone, or close to someone who's in a situation that you can see clearly is bad, and they can't... And you can't... You run the relation to stead of burning down... Burning that bridge. If you go in and say, You shouldn't be doing this. What are you thinking? I need to... You know what I mean? Because they are caught up in the emotions or whatever that relationship is, and it's upto that... You know, I'm sorry, I keep interrupting. No, no, no, go ahead, I wore.


0:23:31.7 S2: But there's also... And there's also so many things that we don't necessarily know, like what goes on in other people's lives and what... And even friends of ours, there may be things that we just don't know...


0:23:46.5 S1: Oh, yeah. And


0:23:48.9 S2: Again, sometimes it's really hard to if and watch people make decisions that you may not make... Think No, don't make that decision. That's not right. But the fact that Eddie is writing about this and is concerned about this... Yeah, I think that really shows like the love that she has for her friend to such...


0:24:14.4 S1: That's so amazing here for their relationship to


0:24:17.3 S2: A... Right, exact. What that's what that needs... She needs that, no matter what her relationship is with her wife, even if it's the best relationship ever, or that she needs to have friends who love and respect for the way that that he does it, so that's so fabulous that it is really... You're a good friend. Yeah, yeah, Addis. Amazing. And I think if you're in a room... I think they had said earlier in the letter that they don't live near each other, is that... Is that right.


0:24:51.4 S1: Eh? They said they're in different states now, that they have adult lives, right. A post-college life, but it's amazing that their friendship has elastic custom high school and college friendships don't last when physical distances increased, but


0:25:10.4 S2: Yeah, I think just maybe every conversation you have with them, whether it's via video or in person or a text message or whatever, maybe trying to throw some kind of positive compliment in their justice, do you know about things that she really likes about Beth just... I have an aunt who every time she talks to me, she's just like, Oh my gosh, you know, you're just so smart and like, whatever. And she's Matisse. I was like 15, like, Oh, you're so smart. Oh, you're so whatever. Oh, you're just... You're so witty. Oh, you're just like... And now it's nice to hear these things, and I also know that whenever she calls, I'm going to hear those things because it... And it's a nice thing. It's not gonna give me a giant head 'cause it hasn't, but it's nice when you have someone who is so strongly just like, You're amazing. Only the chair leader.


0:26:04.4 S1: Everyone needs at least one charter. Exactly, yeah, yeah. That one hit, man.


0:26:09.7 S2: Yeah, yeah, so it's really every time it can just be like, Oh, I'll say something, and she'll like, Oh, you're so wonderful, and that's something that Eddie could just do in really every text exchange or interaction they have. Yeah, I think that just like... Because it is, it's like that. It can be like was saying 100 wonderful things and then the one negative and you focus on the one negative, we do not reviews, don't we? Yeah.


0:26:39.4 S1: It was just get to say that you see that two-star review, you're like, Forget all the four and five either on a iterative... Right. Again.


0:26:48.1 S2: Yeah. And so I think that that's like... So she's kind of building up her arsenal of all of these bricks of positive, positive, positive, positive, positive, positive, positive. That maybe when there is one like negative Taliban off, right? It won't be quite as hurtful or... And maybe that'll also help Beth to regain how she used to be with more self-love, I guess... I don't know.


0:27:23.3 S1: I would go Anastasia, which Beth would actually sit down with her wife and tell her how that those words, how those sentiments make her feel, that argument, you know, you said I was not even that made me feel like naive. You know what I mean? And that was hurtful because I was trying to accomplish a BNC and you made me feel like it was silly to try to... Canis that you know what I mean?


0:27:49.3 S2: Exactly, yeah, enroll, I was gonna say, it's interesting that Beth did say to add when adipose the topic, what did she say? I can defend myself on myself, so... Maybe she did. Maybe she did address it.


0:28:10.2 S1: Maybe with her partner and again, there's stuff that we don't know. There's stuff that Addy may not know. I was just thinking that... 'cause they don't see each other on a daily basis. So he's only getting snippets and...


0:28:25.5 S2: Yeah, maybe there's stuff going on in that like I don't have a professional life that is like beating her down or there are so many different... But the fact that she... I don't know, she had enough of to say, I can defend my... It also said something that maybe she has addressed it, hopefully, hopefully, but I also think that's a good thing that you hear because it's not like... She's just saying like when you say you can defend yourself, that shows you're still fighting, it's not like you're so like capitulated to.


0:29:01.1 S1: Oh, well, I guess I'm a bad person and the test I'll just shut up and sit in the corner. Yeah, right.


0:29:08.6 S2: That, I don't know, it's so hard. Relationships, whether it's romantic or friendship, it's so hard, I just... I don't know, but I want to be with someone who is like my biggest chain, want to be with someone, and I'm learning lucky that I am with someone who is very much like, You know, my biggest cheerleader. As if I didn't have that, we would not be where we are because... I don't want to hear... I had a relationship where it's been... Oh, that was studded. You're gonna like whatever that just... So I know that I'm very, very lucky with what I have, but I've also been in the spot where you are made to feel less than, and sometimes it's because they... I'm not saying this is the case for Beth or Beth's wife, but there is a situation or... Words have powered, you can use them to tear someone up, or you hear someone down or build someone up when you're in a situation where words are used to tear you down... It sucks so much.


0:30:21.0 S1: Yeah, especially from that one person that you've partnered


0:30:23.9 S2: Person that you are the most vulnerable way, the most boards thing. And that's just, I don't know, I mean, I just wanna find Beth and give her a hug and tell her she's amazing and I made too. And that's just... I don't... I don't know if I... Yeah, could put a book together of all of the things I love about that and be like, Bertini did that for my best friend. When we turned 50, when she turned 50, I did 50 memories like 50. We met our freshman year at Temple University, so we've been friends since we were 18. EE, I did, I did 50 memories and just stuff we've done. And it was so funny 'cause she was like, Oh my God, I forgot some of this stuff. And then she started... Then we started talking and she was like, remember this? And some things I had forgotten, it was a... It was a tally might be a good way to remind bath of Addie remembers her, how she was like Constantine situation and you were so great in this, and that could be something that might help her regain that power herself.


0:31:39.6 S1: Yeah, I think friendships, we put a lot, especially as a romance author, to put a lot of emphasis on romantic relationships, I think friendships are harder to navigate, especially as adults than romantic relationships, 'cause erratic relationship is done, it's done. Sometimes people say friends with their exes, but usually you move on to someone new and name along to someone new and there's... The residuals are very limited when a friendship is on the rocks, there are we... What do you do at... Especially a best friend, it's like, Oh my goodness, you usually go to your friends or your best friend to deal with to deal with things, but that's the person that you're having issues, this... You're


0:32:21.0 S2: Right, you're a... It's much harder to navigate. And I think sometimes too, I think we think about friendships, that all friendships have to last for a... And they don't... Sometimes there are people who come into our lives because we need that person or what they have at that total what we have, and they need us at that time, and that time may last for weeks, months, years, and then it kind of... We no longer need that anymore, and that's okay too, I think, but sometimes I feel like I tell my kids this a lot because they're like... They're middle school, so it's a whole... Everything is the world, and as everything is all seen, I'm all by saying the friendships... It's okay, you don't need to have 100 best friends. And it is okay. I've had friends who are great, great friends, and we just drifted apart, and I look back on those times with such fondness because I got so much... Like it was such a nice time. But it just kind of came to an end and that's okay. And sometimes I feel like we forget about that, we forget that


0:33:47.8 S1: We Tatooine the last free... Yeah, there's an old saying with theater, when you're doing a show, you bond with the people that are in the cast and the crew, and you feel like, Oh yeah, you're exchanging information when the show is over and we're all gonna be friends forever, and then literally two weeks later, you're on to the next show or whatever, on the next gig, and you keep in touch with one or two of those people and then maybe never again after a year at... But it feels like in the moment, and it's like when you're in high school in college and you go through classes and go through parties, you go through break-ups and all kinds of stuff with these people, and then everyone goes off and has their life after that. You may stay in touch, you may not, and I think it's amazing that they've kept this friendship going even in... In different states. And I think that's so admirable ADD. I think you guys really are committed to this friendship, and I love the French that you have now you just... You're moving into a new phase where there's an important person in vet's life and you have different differences, but you're respectful of their relationship, you see things going on, you want to be there for her, and you are there for her, and as long as you make sure that she knows that and you're moving into these new phases of life, and you make sure that she knows that you're a sounding board and at your support system still, that's really all you can do that like we were saying, Okay, have all been saying is just remind Beth, how amazing she is, and why you're still friends with her, Yano, all those friendships last...


0:35:18.1 S1: And this one has to go. And I


0:35:20.4 S2: Think, like you were saying, SEO, about how friendships are sometimes... Like a more challenging relationship than I. One of the things that is challenging is when love interests do come in because it does change a team of the dynamic of the friendship and good to eat. It all changes, and so yeah, you have to kind of figure that out and then figure out how to navigate the new dynamics of the ship as you're about


0:35:54.4 S1: It, I think is why Addis reaching out, so... Yeah, yeah, kudos to you, Addie for doing that. Is a lot of love there. Not a lot.


0:36:02.6 S2: Yeah, it


0:36:04.8 S1: Back to us. A hug to Diane. But right back to us and let us know how things are going. Hopefully, you guys will get through this bump and the friendship will stay strong 'cause it is already strong. Thank you again for writing to us and we hope to hear from you again. Oh man, speaking of friendships, you guys are co-authors, which I know I've asked you before, 'cause we had you on Fox Friday, not too long, we... You're talking about how you guys bounce back and forth who writes what and everything, but for the... For the Dr. W listeners would love for you to talk about how you guys navigate this because it's fascinating to me in that was asking that men's like being two halves of one brain, it seems to me when you're working on something together, so how did this come with out first and well, let's talk about what this given about...


0:36:54.0 S2: So we started out his critique Partners, and we started out as gray partners, and I don't know, I honestly don't know. I owe it could be 2-16 to a figure that out, I'll hit come back and look to see my first in... If I have an old email for Nabisco came out of, I need someone to read this and then, Oh, I need someone to read this, and then we just kind of liked the way that that flows if I got stuck on something. So I'd make a note in this and you script it and she'd give me an idea and I be like, Oh, he's brilliant, or whatever. He would do the same to me. And then we started helping each other but... And that worked really well, and we would discuss each other's characters and we... I don't know, just I guess about... What was it? 201 2019 in both short stories for our blogs and I... Each other's characters in them... It's just background. Right. But it was fun. That's fun. And then you're like, Alright, well, that worked. Do we wanna try... We should try writing together. And then we're like, Oh, maybe we should take it seriously.


0:38:06.6 S2: Maybe should try writing together. And then we sat down. It's like, Okay, how would that look? And then we invented our rugby boys or Philadelphia rugby boys, 'cause we A, we're gonna set it silly and we both plot... We're not panthers. We're not so heavily, we don't have every line, but we both need to know where we're going, and I think that's one reason why this works well, I don't think I could work with a total cancer, 'cause I turn in a chapter and they can get back or something we're like... And then the guys, I inauspicious something like.


0:38:49.0 S1: Which is exactly what Kim Golden and I do, we work on that thing together area 'cause the guys retweet all panting... We totally paned Hayakawa at you right now. Is that how you write...


0:39:01.0 S2: You are you apamea hybrid.


0:39:03.4 S1: Okay, I'm a hybrid, so I'm definitely a Panther, but I do all my plotting in my head before I ever start writing it right, all this stuff is like, Okay, this is what I think will happen here and is there and this... So I needed to go there and then on lines down, if I come up with a Iceland of dialogue or something like that, but yeah, I really need to get better at plotting because I'm running these big series and it's like, if you don't re gonna... Either. So


0:39:33.5 S2: You too, you too are passing it up.


0:39:36.1 S1: Yeah, I would say it was like Wednesdays and Sundays, we trade chapters and it was like... And we were posting them 'cause it was a free sort of what pad or whatever it was, things like... It was going back to my panties, but it reminded me of another sort of theater thing where we play What if you do a scene with someone and it's like, what if someone said something and then you just keep raising the stakes? It was kind of like that.


0:40:00.7 S2: Yeah, it's fun. I love that


0:40:02.4 S1: It was fun, but you guys are serious about it though.


0:40:05.9 S2: Well, but I think it's because you have to... I think it works because we are similar in how we approach it, probably because you and Kim, it worked because similar to... Yeah, I think it would probably be really frustrating for some


0:40:25.1 S1: Answers... True cancer at a


0:40:27.6 S2: True water. Yeah, I think that would be so. Yeah, so it's worked for us and we... I guess it was just... It was kind of organic. It really was how we started a... It doesn't work very well. And we have much fun... We don't have fun, we have a lot of fun with it. We meet once a week and we talk about either the chapter we've turned in or the chapter that's coming up, or just the characters in general, we're drilling warranty are the way they are, and we're coming up with why they are the way they are, but we have a dock where we put our outline in, and then we have a spreadsheet that is very helpful, that Shanta invented that has a tube that has characters names, occupations with the drive where they live at height weight, first day.


0:41:20.0 S1: It's like a series, Bible almost teasers. So


0:41:23.6 S2: Helpful, 'cause if you're writing something like I remember how to Epson is or how old were they supposed to be in this book, because now we're writing this book... Yeah, then we're writing to simultaneously that were happening in different times of year. Yeah, it was helpful to go back to that because... Was you're jumping from Fall... Summer or whatever. But yeah, that's been... I do wanna apologize for dropping... Making the awful loud noise earlier, I did not mean to. I dropped my tablet and... Oh no, I do not get it. So I intestate in A... It didn't break the...


0:42:01.7 S1: Tables were harmed in the making of this podcast.


0:42:04.7 S2: I'm sorry about that. Overtime sitting still, which hotel now as I'm sitting across like right now, and I'm like and see you prod to... 'cause if I talked to you on video chat, I'm like, You know, I have to... Something to hold.


0:42:15.9 S1: I have this mini surfboard under my desk, like this Rocketdyne


0:42:24.5 S2: A few weeks ago, because I... Because I'm going, I have a shoulder thing, and so I was like, I need something better, so I'm sitting better


0:42:33.5 S1: When they're working. Yeah, yeah, it's nice. It's fun, I'm just sitting here


0:42:39.5 S2: Like serves it, have my Asia little bit... Massage your thing on the bodies...


0:42:47.8 S1: No, it's not that, it's just like a cushion patrimonial that you can pull your feet on it to beside your...


0:42:55.7 S2: Yeah.


0:42:56.4 S1: I should have gotten that. And that was pretty cool. Now you're on good season, but you guys... By the time this airs, which I think is after your next release, 'cause it releases on the 22nd... Yes, yes, yeah. Tell everybody about the new book that will be out by the time they hear this. So


0:43:15.4 S2: We have... There we go to


0:43:17.7 S1: In... And this is the right interest.


0:43:22.7 S2: This is our summer romance between Hercules and Apollo, and just say much We have meaning people... I do great gods for these guys. Well.


0:43:33.9 S1: Great guys are hot right now, so you go to


0:43:35.9 S2: A... No, yeah, yeah. So it's a summer romance, and it's super sweet and sexy, and we've got one of our heroes, urgent has an held hands eateries as a diminishes so sweet. And he shows it to zoos, we get animals and like I was in love, and the other guy cooks for him, so there's a food in there, and it's like a whole like, Oh, food astonished gets a match making friends, which I am making to do.


0:44:15.4 S1: Well, I love this series, I'm learning for it to download onto my Kindle Elysian you that we're excited for it, and it'll be out on the 22nd and tell everybody where they can find you guys 'cause you have a joint website now, right?


0:44:28.4 S2: We do do... We do, it's Shelly and Mayor dot com, and you can find that's where we have all of our joint work, and then my website is Chantal Mayor dot com, and that's where you can find my stuff and our joint stuff. Yeah, and me too, Suisse dot com and all of our socials for everything are on all of those places.


0:44:51.8 S1: So that they'll be able to find you also... Yeah, I wanna thank you guys for being here with me today, but thank you us much fun spending time with you guys and you're great. And you guys can tune in next week, we will have author superstar model, whatever you wanna call her, and not him alone will be with this, so that's gonna be a leftist as well. We get the best people, you guys are so gracious to come and hang out with us, really appreciate it, but... Yeah, tune it again. Next time for more. Writer where senior questions, we can't wait to give you some questionable advice from a trio of happily ever after enthusiasts. You see you guys next time. Thank you so much for subscribing to Dear romance writer. Remember to keep sending in those letters I dromore dot com. We can't wait to tell you what to do.


0:45:56.9 S2: Year romance writer is part of the frolic Podcast Network. Find more podcasts you love framed podcast.

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