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0:00:11.6 S1: Welcome to do a romance writer everybody, where three writers for actually this week who always deliver happily ever after offer questionable advice for all of your relationship work and life problems, I'm a briefly run parish.


0:00:29.6 S2: And I'm zero, we've got a great show for you today. With the


0:00:32.8 S1: Amazing Jennifer probes. Jen, welcome to the show. I didn't see you as Bethany.


0:00:40.6 S2: Tell us all about yourself. Tell everybody who you are. What you do, all that good stuff. Oh.


0:00:45.6 S1: All the good stuff. So


0:00:47.6 S2: It always feels so good to say, I'm a New York Times best-selling author.


0:00:51.7 S1: An O is... I literally, I wrote my 50th book.


0:00:57.6 S2: So it's a


0:00:58.7 S1: Yes here on having official decided when it gets in to... I feel so good. So yeah, so I get to say like 50 bucks, and I write contemporary romance fiction, and I write all of it. There's women's fiction, they're sexy fiction, there's production, there's all of it. And she wrote great write books for writers as well as just helpful and really, really good, so I highly recommend those for you


0:01:28.0 S2: In you every... I forget about the two non-fiction books, right, naked and rate for all my writers out there, not love it. We are so happy to have you here today. Wait, what's your latest?


0:01:39.4 S1: What's your latest? Cool. Latest is actually coming, February 22, 2222. So it faced the Secret Love Letters of Olivia already and to about three sisters who take a trip to track down their mom's mysterious letter after she passes, they find a had drunk in her closet with a stack love letters from a mysterious R and a house to deed and the mule coast. So they literally go to travel to Italy and at time they are finding their mom's secret pass, they're also healing the fragments of their relationships and love it, it's a little bit of a lease, that's one too... It lead to research this book...


0:02:23.0 S2: Well, you know, I actually sold it during the pandemic, but I've been to Italy four times, and I always knew I wanted to write about host a tano, and I gotta be honest, guys, it was pretty awesome to be in post Aton in the book all day, and then you know, my husband called me for dinner and I'd be like... Where's my spaghetti ongole? Where's my fire?


0:02:43.6 S1: Back in New York, baby. That's what you got. It's fun. It's a Minions.


0:02:53.7 S2: Awesome. Yeah.


0:02:56.1 S1: Okay, can I tell you... No segue, just... Can I tell you the cutest thing that happened to me on Valentine's Day? Yeah, yes. Okay, I realized that this is such a Rom-Com thing, but my girlfriend and I got each other of the literal same Valentine's Day gift. It was a thing that we had to order directly from a creator that we both like God had to arrive, and mine hadn't come yet on Valentine's Day. And so I walked over to her house and I was like, My present for you. Is it here? I'm so pissed. And then she handed me mine and I opened it and I was like, Are you fucking kidding me? That is to Seneca the next day and yeah, we got each other the same thing that i... Bunyoro, Sly Sony. I love it. I like that anyway, think of our house, I looked at my husband and said, no gifts. No food, no cards, no flowers. I'm like, I can't do it this year. Dead, if he does it and I don't do it, then I fill out as I like just... We're both cancelled. Okada is canceled. So my husband knows I just go into it.


0:04:13.7 S1: So I'm not disappointed, I'm like, This is what I want. Go get it in. And I am in the throats of winter in New York, so I was like, I want this truce-covered strawberries in the struggle and mom that I can eat, and I want it by myself. That was it. I really like that. Those those or goals, you or goals, I should do that instead of... No, nothing next year. Alright, I have a rethinking my stuff.


0:04:41.8 S2: We kinda got each other the same thing is you're... He got me wine and challah always get chocolate, but this time he got this... It's a new house chocolate, so it's made for pairing with wine, it's like different kinds of chocolate and they tell you which one, and then three bottles of wine, one is sparkling, which surprised him because he hates Rocklin line, and I got him Dry Cider because when we were on vacation last year, we found out that he likes dry side or


0:05:04.0 S1: A


0:05:04.1 S2: Side, I was like, we both got each other some Boston be a fun few weekends coming up... What was at the Kiddie? That this episode is actually sponsored by a letter to three witches by Elizabeth pass, which is out now from Kensington, and we talked about this before, but I want everyone remind people because it's such a cute premise, it's... Which meets Practical Magic, which I said I was gonna watch Practical Magic again as it's been too long, and I don't remember that too, but in this sparkling and quirky Rom-Com with an enchanted twist, when romance problems cause their powers to go Besser a trio of which is whose family was banned from practicing magic, risk getting in serious trouble with the grand cancel, can they get their magic and their love lives in order before it's too late? You have to eradicate it. In season retrieve that we're seeing more of them now at


0:06:11.9 S1: The paper now. Right, I love that.


0:06:14.2 S2: Yeah, yeah, we...


0:06:16.3 S1: Because our rights as human beings are being so curtailed by the government that we have to actually write books where we kill people through magic, so that we don't end up on the government watch lists when we write hostesses or guns, 'cause what the little logical goes awry. Who can blame you? Yeah. You know what had you... I go on there, but you know what, it's... You in that direction, I think I really can.


0:06:46.0 S2: Well, into something completely different. So we actually got a letter or... Didn't we get a letter?


0:06:52.9 S1: We did, we did. I have a uterus just to remind everybody, letter to three witches by Elizabeth bases out now from Kensington. And you can find out more in Kensington books, dot com.


0:07:04.7 S2: Thank you for that. Tegile, she did.


0:07:09.2 S1: But this is what we do, man. A good friends. So we have a letter, this a little bit of a long one, it's a little bit Heartbreaker, I will not lie to you. I read this in our inbox and quite frankly, Let's just all give Sally a hug now. Okay. Yes. Okay, so thank you for sitting in your letter, anybody who wants to send in their letter can send it to advice at Dear Romano dot com, we will not share any identifying information, so it'll be an onus. So just say, write in and says, I'm a single mother in my late 30s since high school, I've had a one-room friend, let's call them in, he and I have gone through some times not speaking for months on end, to being attached to the hip for years, it's just how life goes. But as I've said, we've only ever been friends, but I've been aware since high school that A may have different feelings or may have deeper feelings for me, he is never in all this time ever pressured me to take our relationship further. And it's the reason I've kept him in my life, I was vein in my younger years and spent far too much my life confusing, lost for love and focusing far too much on looks, this I embarrassingly admit is the only reason I never pursued a romantic relationship with an, soon after graduation, I became pregnant and quickly married, father and my daughter, I did everything I thought I was supposed to, but after two years, my husband cheated and left me with our daughter, I had my mother in town, and I don't know what I would have done without her.


0:08:35.4 S1: I also leaned heavily on in during this time for emotional support, he was nothing short of a saint to me and never tried to leverage my emotional state to his advantage. Sadly, I repeated this process too many times, I was at least smart enough to never let myself become pregnant again, it all came to a head when my daughter was 13, my living boyfriend at the time was verbally abusive to me, one day, my daughter called me from my mother's house and said she was never going to be near that man again, even if it meant she couldn't be around me, I am so embarrassed that it took such a drastic wake-up call for me to figure things out or at least start to try... When I tried to break up with my boyfriend, he shouted at me that I could leave, that I couldn't leave him, and how ungrateful I was, I locked myself in the bathroom and called in and tears, he was at my house in minutes and is not a physically intimidating person. And my boyfriend was, I can't go into details, but I'll say that I had my finger over 911 during the whole instead because I was terrified for my boyfriend might do to end by some miracle and convinced my boyfriend to pack on me without a physical fight, and also sat on his car in my driveway the rest of the night in case my boyfriend decided to come back, not only that, the next day he changed on my locks and installed security cameras at my home, he just did this without me even asking too...


0:09:57.2 S1: When my daughter came home, I did what I should have from the start, I focused on providing for her myself instead of trying to get her a two-parent home, I stopped dating, worked on my career and poured all love I could enter my daughter... By some grace of God, she's an amazing student and is now off to college with me having to provide little financial support. I cannot say how proud of her I am, despite every disservice I did her growing up, I'm at home by myself now, and I'll admit I'm only... And and I had been in a phase where we're not talking much, but we ran into each other at the store recently, and out of nowhere, I asked him to come over, watch movie... About halfway through the movie, we held hands and did so for the rest of the show, and when he went to leave, I kissed him, he seemed happy enough about this, but he does guard himself because it wouldn't be the first time I've given him a reason to hope I'm horrible. I know, I'm pretty sure now that I'm in love with Ann and I want to have a relationship with him.


0:10:56.2 S1: My problem is, how do I start? I've spent so much of my life put in horrible men before in... And he has always been there for me. I feel like I'm starting from... I'm starting from inside a hole in the ground that I've dug myself, what if he won't ever have me at this point, and if He does, How do I ever make up for everything? I told you guys, I told you guys, Sally needs a hot...


0:11:25.0 S2: Hugging Sally, hugging and hugging Sally's daughter. Yeah.


0:11:29.5 S1: Everyone. So where do we start? What do you guys think? What should Sally do it? This Otis later breaks my heart because it's so clear how much Sally blames herself not just for missing out on the chance with Ian are being more invested in people's looks or sex appeal over certain other things, which I wanna pause and say that people who aren't socialized as women are taught that being with men who are physically attractive gives them power, and so I Satsuma nature. Right. And no, I think it's cool. I don't know, I think I... Teater is cultural. Yes, but I think finding that physical attraction... I don't think it's cultural. It's just eating to... Tracksuit, sorry, keep going. No, that's okay. Yeah, every culture has different ideas of what is attractive, every person has different ideas of what's attractive, but one thing in our culture that is fairly true across the board is that people who are socialized as women gain cultural capital by being with men that the world views as attractive, and that attractiveness could be power or money, or looks, or sex appeal or physical strength, but I wanna say the Sally, first thing, the fact that you value those things above what was inside people when you were younger, does not make you a bad person, that is cultural conditioning that you fell into because you were taught to...


0:13:16.1 S1: And it's not good. Of course, and you know that now, but I feel like the first thing I wanna say, because this letter has so much self-loathing and so much... It's so clear that it's written from someone who's at a really different point in their life, and they were at the beginning of high school when they met, this person is like, don't hate yourself because you had to learn a life lesson by living life... That's how we learn life lessons, and it's like hating yourself over it is just not... It's not productive. It's not fair. It's not kind. And so I would say if you can start to let go of that, it matters so much more who you are now in dealing with this issue, like if your real question is, How do I try to start a relationship with this person? I feel like the first thing you have to do is let go of that sense that you're starting at a deficit as if you already have so much to make up for that in... Has something over on you, right.


0:14:18.0 S2: Like giving him some power, then necessarily need to give...


0:14:22.1 S1: Exactly, he's clearly a lovely person and has been there for you and done all these wonderful things, but you don't know why people do what they do, you don't know why people like the choices they make, I think assuming that he had some sort of ulterior motive and that you failed to live up to some other man's expectations of you doesn't mean that you are starting out in a hole, that just means you didn't have those feelings before, and to me, the why doesn't matter so much, we are so often not able to choose the things that are best for us at certain moments in our life, or the things that are best for us in one way are worse for us in another, and I just feel like step one is you have to forgive yourself before you can even think about getting into a relationship with a new person like that, and that's just work that's gonna happen, like get a therapist if you don't have one... Absolutely. Find friends, talk about the things that you... Like the choice is that you feel like you've made that aren't serving you anymore. Not to make amends or feel bad, but because that's how we learn, how can we get over shit, like learning that being skinny is positive and being fat as negative, which is another lesson that people teach us, we don't just suddenly one day wake up and be like Oh, the value placed on an bodies is essentially a white supremacist.


0:15:49.7 S1: Massage in a spot. Good thing that's taken care of, and I can live the rest of my life and ease in my body, these are super hard, complicated, culturally entrenched narratives that you alone as one human being, do not have the power to shift. All you have the power to do is to think about why you made the choices you made, think about what you've learned now that makes you a different person, talk to your daughter who seems super self-sufficient and powerful and goal-oriented, and maybe she can help you but I feel like step one, I wanna just say is getting to a place where you no longer feel like you owe someone for past mistakes that you had to make to get to where you are today. I'm gonna agree and disagree with you really quick on a couple of things, Number one, yeah, I think this... This whole letter to me, is that mean where the woman like does the chef's kiss and say growth, you know, that's what this whole letter is to me is she has grown as a human being is she has a church, she has gone from that dumb ass that we all are in high school and has matured to an actual adult with adult feelings and emotions and realizations, and that is a huge thing.


0:17:09.3 S1: It takes some of us longer than others. So that's number one. So I agree with all of that stuff, and I love that the kitty cat is all in your face today... I'm gonna disagree, and this could be very well, amazing on the talking to your adult daughter about this, I think that there are certain boundaries between parents and kids, and I think when you try and turn your child into a best friend, therapist, I think that... Or somebody to get advice from, I think that can be problematic, and especially in a relationship with this where the child has already been one... To sort of step up and say, you're in an abusive relationship. I'm never going back there again. This has to change. So that child has already had to be an adult earlier than... Probably ideal or probation, agree with you that I'm... I don't even talk to your daughter about your relationship with Ian or the men that you've chosen a, talk to your daughter about how to figure out what you want, what your goals are, how to be a woman in the sea, and I still disagree with that because personally, personally, me, I disagree with that because I do think that there needs to be boundaries between that relationship to keep that relationship healthy, it doesn't mean you can't be friends...


0:18:37.8 S1: Well, friendly, I don't know, I just personally feel that there is a... Things get weird when the parent-child relationship loses those boundaries, in my opinion. Okay, but practically speaking with Sally and with... And I think the most important thing that she needs to do because she has, is to actually sit down and talk to him and see if he is actually interested in it.


0:19:09.0 S2: I think that's the fear. Yeah, I think that's the fear though.


0:19:12.4 S1: And that's really scary, but she needs to do that because she needs to figure out what his boundaries are, what he's comfortable with, if he wants things to say the same as she ever was, maybe that's... His comfort zone too, they've been doing it for, what, 20 years now, head


0:19:28.2 S2: Piece with his feelings for her and has moved on to some it something else. So she needs to sit and have that conversation with him first.


0:19:38.1 S1: But she does definitely need to give herself a little bit of grace and thinking that she's ruined everything that a relationship that she might have with this with in... She just needs to sit down and have kind of an uncomfortable conversation, which we are, and it sounds like he's already seen so much of her... Of her internal ugly. Anyway, and the ugly that happens has happened in her life, that none of it's probably gonna be shocking to him.


0:20:06.4 S2: So he doesn't run away screaming, so he's a... Exactly. I need to talk to Sally directly for a second. Sallis en to me for just a second, you are an awesome person that can tell you why you raise an incredible daughter and a person who is a shitty mom or rapper son or whatever, does not raise incredible daughters when it was just two guys. You know what I mean? You try to provide the life that you thought you needed to raise her, and all of the time that a whole while you were the only thing that she needed, and it took her saying, Look, mom, you are not loving yourself enough... I'm gonna remove myself from the situation. Which is what you should do, and kudos to her for doing that because that takes a lot of courage to leave your parent like that, but you need to love yourself like these men, and even in... And any relationship you have with him. Great, that's wonderful, but you have to figure out how to fall in love with yourself, because all I'm reading in this letter is that you don't love yourself and you don't think you deserve it.


0:21:13.2 S2: So like Ron said, Get a therapist, talk to someone and fall in love with yourself because we're all sitting here going, Wow. But a really cool person. What amazing growth. And you're not, I'm not getting that from you in this letter... Yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree with all of you. And all I can think of is going back to the decade in my 20s where I hopped from kind of abusive relationship to abusive relationship, and I've been married to my husband now for... I think it's in 18 years, but I always know that I met him when I was older and I was done. I had done my growth, I had done my therapy, I had realized who I was, and I needed to make all of those terrible, awful mistakes, but it's something that when you're going through it... You're trapped within it. You can't see past it. Now, I look back at all of those mistakes, I would not take one of them back because that is... It would change where I am right now. And I know that I've met my husband earlier, I wouldn't have even looked at him twice, but when he came into my life, I was suddenly very in love with the good guy, the nice guy, the guy who's gone up, but you know, you revert it back and I wasn't...


0:22:32.8 S2: I would have gone to the club and been like, Oh no, no, it was just very attracted to men who had something that wasn't good for me, but at the same time, I had to go through that, so there's that self-love, but it's like be so kind to yourself, because I just feel like down the line, you're gonna look back and see it all, the history had to be gone through so you can get to a stronger point, that's a big thing. And within, I also feel like just what you said, so about communication, that's a big thing, but also taking it... So I also have like... She's a little inner head going, aren't we all in our heads going, Okay, I'm gonna... You know this is gonna happen, that's gonna happen. I'm ready now, and sometimes it's just be in the moment and build up that trust and try this relationship on a different level and just see what happens, sometimes we don't have to rush or overthink or... And I do agree with talking to him, but then I also agree that you can't... It's gotta go back slow because you're never gonna have the same relationship with all the other things in the background, so that could just come into something completely new, but she's gotta figure that out with him and...


0:23:49.7 S2: Slow, slow and steady. There's no rush right now. Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with that. So other than her daughter, it sounds like an has been the most steady person in her life, that down... It's a touch that definitely... He's a touch tone, you don't wanna... Yeah, yeah, agree. Sorry. Yeah.


0:24:07.4 S1: And I think that one of the things that has to happen before you talk to an IS... And this can happen with whoever, if you don't have a good friend, then a therapist would be a great person to talk to, if you have close family or someone that you can talk to. I think you need to figure out is, figure out what it is that you like about in besides the things that He's done for you and the space that he's held for you, because it extremely easy to look at the things people have done for us and read them as indicative of love, but that's not the same thing as being in love with a person, and it could be that ends in love with you, it could be that he used to be... And he's not anymore. We don't know yet. Certainly, he's an amazing friend and an amazing person, 'cause he's totally had your back, but lots of us are amazing friends for people that we are not in love with, and some of us are amazing friends for people that would be terrible at being in a relationship with and none of that is to say that you shouldn't try to be.


0:25:08.7 S1: Absolutely not, but I do think one thing that happens after you've been in a bunch of abusive relationships is that you artificially inflate the value of basic human kindness to excess emotion. I have known people who, when I did something for them that was just what anyone should have done, they gave it so much value, they thanked simply, they said, Oh my God, you are an amazing friend, and I've had to look at them and be like, I am just doing a pretty normal basic thing that any casual friend would do for another... I'm not doing anything extraordinary. Your evaluation chart is skewed, negative, and that's a real... That's like a psychological thing that really does happen after abusive relationships, and so again, not saying that the things that he's done are not wonderful, but I think if you can even make a pros list for yourself or a pro-con list for yourself, but list the things that you like about him, things like things that don't have to do with his service to you, or like a sense of humor, we have really similar taste in movies, I love that he's the first person I wanna tell about something funny 'cause he has the best laugh in the whole world.


0:26:27.7 S1: Those are the things that I think you wanna figure out like you need to have... You should have... I don't know how many of those do you guys talk about your partners? I have hundreds left things that you really like about the person that add up to, I wanna be with this person in a romantic way more than I wanna be with anybody else or by myself, and like that I think I would do before talking to... And so that you can show up for him and tell him that... 'cause if I were in Ian's position and I had been showing you that I cared for years and years and years, and maybe more of a friend, more than a friend kind of way, if you finally kissed me and we're like, Let's do this, I would be... So suspicious, not because you're not probably a wonderful person, but because what's changed now? How do I know that you value me now for myself as opposed to in comparison with these dudes who've treated you shitty, and I would want to hear... These are the reasons why I want to sort of relationship with you, these are the reasons why I think that we would be great together, or why I think that I could care about you in that way, and that would be a great way to also see where he's landing, because there are some people who like to be the hero and they really enjoy, they get something big out of showing up for other people, there's nothing wrong with that unless it's indicating something that their feeling doesn't match.


0:27:58.0 S1: And so, yeah, I think you should tell him those reasons that you care about him, you should have tell them those reasons why you want a relationship, and I think you should be super, super clear with him, like exactly what you said to us in this letter, he probably already knows from his side of things, but he doesn't know what was going on in your head unless you told him, and so I think, yeah, a conversation that is gonna look a lot like comparing finances or something, where you're like, Listen, I got this in the negative column, I got this in the plus column, I wanna be real with you about where I'm coming from and what it would mean to be in a relationship, and this is what I want, and this is what I think, and if that's a conversation, whatever your version of that is 'cause I see every dying on the inside, we have to talk about feelings or whatever your talks like is what adults sit down to talk about whether they're gonna be in a relationship. It's not like, do you like me? Check, yes or no anymore. And I think that that is something that passionate, it was...


0:29:06.5 S1: Unless you got to know then it was terrible and it says... Or it could just be the little Fold thing where I notify... Were living in a mansion. A shack. A house. What was the rest? What was the other one? Mansion a shack. A house. There was another, I don't remember the fourth one is... I don't... I don't remember me. She was mad. Don't know, maybe it was an apartment. 'cause it was an apartment.


0:29:33.2 S2: I guess, department. No, I agree with growing because even in a letter, she says, this wouldn't be the first time up giving them a reason to hope, which is like, If you've let them all... And I hate to use that term, but if you've let him on before and then in a different direction, there were some heartbreak there or some morning period that he had to go through, so... Yeah, tread carefully. And I totally agree that sometimes when you're in a bad situation or just in no situation at all, and suddenly someone is presenting you with kindness, you can get the heart floaters because of the person who's presenting you with kindness, but it doesn't necessarily mean that... You know what I mean? So yeah, you have to evaluate what you want from your relationship within before you talk to him, because if you give them a glimmer of hope and then you dash it again, I don't know what that would do to your friendship. Okay.


0:30:24.0 S1: That's a really good point. And I say this as somebody whose dogs are going to town in the background if you hear them... Sorry. But I love therapy for other people, I have never been able to do therapy, no one who listens to this podcast is shocked by this, but feelings you... I would, however, strongly suggest to Sally that she find either through some of the therapy act, so she doesn't have to do face-to-face or... For local Community Mental Health Center, sometimes we'll have things or even... So I'm not a huge fan of self-health book, just 'cause I think there's so many drifters out there, but something she has been through... I mean, in high school, and she's in her mid 30s now, if my math is correct, I write books for a living, it's probably not, but she's somewhere around there, so late, she has been going through it her entire life and just... Some of the things that are within the letter that talk about, I thought I was doing the right thing, I try and give my child a two-parent household, you know, I was doing what I always thought.


0:31:43.0 S1: I do some of the self-loathing, like as I talked about, things like that, you've made huge progress in your growth and what you've done, I think there's still more to go down that block, I mean, we all have so much more space to go down that block, but I think you've got stuff that would really help and benefit in the long-term by being able to talk with somebody and figuring out healthy boundaries, and being able to figure out that self-love factor in you and almost as the... It doesn't... Okay, you guys correct me if I'm wrong. The letter didn't say how long since she was basically keeping herself... Let's see, her daughter was 13, is that right? Yeah, so her daughter, 13, her daughters in college now, so let's say five years... Right, she spent five years sort of doing that, Okay, I'm set myself on a different path type of thing, but bad relationships can be like addictions, and you don't wanna jump... You don't wanna think you're free and clear in something and jump into our relationship, there's a reason why they strongly suggest people don't get how to rehab and then go into relationships, and I'm not saying that's the situation, I'm just saying it's something to be aware of, and I really do think that you've been through a lot of hell, and it shows just what a strong person you are, that you've made it through, and that you've raised such a strong...


0:33:20.7 S1: And that you are becoming self-aware of all of these things, I would just... I think you need some support in your corner, and I think they're definitely... And stop telling up your failures and start looking at all of your successes because they are... I guarantee you there are more of them.


0:33:39.4 S2: There always is, right? What is the banat so much easy to believe the bad stuff be woman. Yeah, it is. It's human. It's just human. And I think looking back, I think giving herself Grace, she needs to give you... You need to give yourself a break. You need to really know that you are doing the best that you can, and we're all making mistakes out here, so...


0:34:11.4 S1: Yeah, we are. As we should be people that you so much for writing to us, that was... Yeah, I hope you write back to let us know what you do or what happened.


0:34:30.3 S2: Please let us know.


0:34:31.5 S1: Yeah, I really invested.


0:34:33.5 S2: And thank you for trusting us with this, Thank you for trusting us with this, because this is some big life stuff here, and then now a lot of people out there, Kasem, so earlier that you get... Yeah, like Jen said, people can rely... A lot of people can relate to this. Yeah.


0:34:57.3 S1: Absolutely. Totally. Yeah, well, okay, so the letter and talking about partners and stuff has me thinking about falling in love and how many ways it happens in, and Jen was saying that you can meet that the right person at the wrong time isn't the right person, etcetera. So I'm wondering what all of your meat cuts were for your significant others, if you had to... Does it fall into a trope category, workplace, romance, enemies to lovers, that kind of thing. Can you talk about your mutes and if they have a trip that goes to them, the top... I'm trying to think of the future. I will say that Mr. Plan and I were workplace for emancipate, you go opposite, attract workplace romance. And let's see, we're at 22 years this year, so... Yeah, you spend a lot of time at work. Folks. Yeah, so that's my lightning round meet you. We met at work. Is all you more? Very short skirt.


0:36:04.2 S2: Sounds love that I met my husband at a bar. But I was with a girlfriend hang out, I was scoping out the single man, and my girlfriend's boyfriend at the time called my husband and said, Come up the bar, and I guess my husband, who was on the date and the date have gone terrible, and he... He was like, Oh, and he was so depressed. He said he just wanted to go home and go to bed. He's like, It was so he said he was like lonely, he had a terrible day, he couldn't find a good woman, just somebody to date for a long time. And he always says to me, thank God I went to that part. We took my two boys who were now, oh my god, 17 and 15, and we went to the local restaurant and we point out the bars to him, my tattoo, Don't ever be afraid to go to the bookstore.


0:37:09.1 S1: That's right, E, That should be in the bar trophies.


0:37:12.3 S2: Definitely a troop.


0:37:14.2 S1: My friends, right?


0:37:16.6 S2: Yeah, I love that he was on a date that went badly and then he meets you...


0:37:24.2 S1: I love Essie, I just was looking kind of like me, I just wanted a relationship with somebody nice who made me laugh, it was like we were just at the same... And when we started talking, I remember there was just this... I felt like I could talk to him forever, just laugh and stuff like that, there was no... Not stress, that I was so used to an old mine. I'm like, This is stress. This is gonna be great. I was like, Wow, I think I learned my was. And that is a huge lesson in early relationships versus adult relationships... What about you?


0:38:04.4 S2: So we met online, not in a dating anything, nothing like that, it was a class to learn how to put websites together, and it was like a group of 30 students and the instructor never showed up, so those of us in the class, we're giving each other information like, anybody know how to do this? Okay, in how to do that and you don't do that. And then toward the end of the class, we had nothing else to talk about, so it was like, Does anybody see whatever movie... What it was, is we... We talked about movies, and then the next day we were all back in there again talking about movies and music and whatever, and out of that group of 30 people, six couples form someone, six couples form, the first couple that married two weeks after that class, the first class, another one moved, one of the girl moved to Canada, I think it was, or ever, we met... We didn't start dating online anyway until a month later, but after that, it went really fast, we met in person, so it was February when we met in the class, March when we started talking.


0:39:10.5 S2: April, when I fill out there, we met in person, June, he flew here to meet My people... July, we got engaged. Oh no, Jimmy got engaged, holy, I went out there to be his parents, which is a whole long story, August, he moved to Philly 'cause he was in California at the time, and then we got married in November. So it was like.


0:39:29.1 S1: I just want a real... Any time my editor gets on me for my short timelines in my books, I would be like... I have proof will write the tale.


0:39:43.2 S2: I am a fan of feasible in Salo because it happens.


0:39:47.4 S1: Yeah, I like that. How about you, Ron? We are friends to lovers, my girlfriends and I were really close friends for a year, year and a half, and I finally had to confess my love to her because I felt like I was lying, not saying anything, and so I told her in the darkest way over where I was like, You don't have to... I don't expect anything. Don't worry, you don't have to say anything in response. And then I told her that I had a crush on her. And she was totally shocked. And so for a moment, I was like, Oh, this is gonna be bad. Like heartbreak city population needs. Yeah, exactly. But then that worked out, it's been like, I don't know, here and a half or two years. Fantasy, we won't have a true... We all have to notate. Right, romance, I guess. Yeah, I like that.


0:40:52.6 S2: That's awesome. Well, this has been uplifting, even though we had a heavy letter, I think there's a lot of optimism in that letter, so Sally, we are wishing you all the best and we can't wait to hear from you again, and if you have other listeners, if you have a problem or a situation that you wanna talk about or want us to give you advice, questionable or otherwise, please write us... We'd love to hear from you. You can send us a letter on our anonymous form on our website, dear romance writer dot com, you can DM us... Slide on in there and we will be happy to help you. But Jen, thank you so much for being here with us this week, we really enjoyed having you. You're amazing, you know, I love you so... But


0:41:34.5 S1: Let me do all of you so much, this was such a... Oh my God, it was such a treat to just involved and hear the letter


0:41:43.0 S2: And feel like the whole community is supporting everybody. You guys are wonderful.


0:41:48.6 S1: Thank you.


0:41:49.2 S2: You tell everybody where they can find you again and Boeing out. Jennifer props dot com, go to my website, I'm on all social media. But on 2-22, once the secret love letters of Olivia Moretti, it's got a little bit of everything. What we do, there's travel, food, because the Italian and made lots of food and wine, and we are... It sounds fabulous. I cannot wait to... To thank you guys for joining us for another episode. We will be back next week, and do we know who's with us next week? I don't intestines it just us. It is just a wee. Well, Valentine's day is over. Rear done. When we'll be back with more questionable advice for you from this trio of happily ever after enthusiasts, thank you for joining us. We will see you next time


0:42:46.9 S1: I you thank you so much for subscribing to Dear romance writer remember to keep sending in those letters I demonstrate com we can't wait to tell you what to do your romance writer is part of the frolic podcast network find more podcasts you love framed podcast

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