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0:00:12.0 S1: Welcome to the romance writer, where three writers for this week 'cause we're super lucky who always deliver happily ever after offer questionable advice to all of your relationship, work and life problems. I am a rifle, I'm Ron Parish, and zero.


0:00:31.2 S2: We have a great show for you today with the fabulous author of extraordinary name of Samoan, never tell us all about the everyone else, 'cause we all stuck you, but tell everyone else about your weather stocks. Well.


0:00:48.0 S1: That's one thing you now know about, you might wanna get advice on that.


0:00:51.2 S2: I don't call it a... But other than that, well, my name is Naaman and I write continue... Well, mostly contemporary romance and A... In those two books that apparently nobody wanted to read, but I got dressed but with humor, heart and a lot of it I use any of bed where and... Yeah, all the good ones at preachers can sastri make S proud everywhere. And that's me in a nutshell. I write books with hard, a lot of emotion as small town billionaires, tattoo artists, cover them all if they're alpha, I want 'em. And strong heroin. And that's me. Fabulous attorney, as I said. That's a Hayride already. Yeah, you guys have to watch YouTube 'cause this is fabulous. We're really happy to have you here. That's weak, especially since guys, I don't know if you know, but this is technically our one year anniversary for this podcast when this really... Yeah, because we lost on the 11th, and this will air on the 10th, so that this was like our podcast diverse


0:02:23.7 S1: And I'm here for it. Yes, we're so happy you're here. So


0:02:27.4 S2: As I'm like, your gift. Yes, you are. You are like


0:02:34.8 S1: How I made it all about me now, as you should, as you show.


0:02:41.2 S2: But yeah, I mean, what else can we chat about today other than that, it's been a year... This has been a wild year, we kinda went into this not really knowing what we wanted to do, just to have fun other than that, have fun, we were doing recipes, we were doing playlists, we didn't have guests at first and then we did... It was just like, we were just trying to find our group, and I feel like we hit our stride and just had all these wonderful people like name on the other people who've joined us, and it's just been really amazing, I think. Amazing here. Don't you think, especially during everything else that's going on outside of these windows and stuff...


0:03:18.3 S1: Yeah, definitely when we took... So we recorded all of our December episodes in November so that we could take basically the end of the year off to try and... I don't know, figure out life. That's one does at the end of every year, and when we finally got to get back together and gonna start recording, it was so nice to see your face again, I am totally not gonna lie, I missed y'all ones being able to get together weekly and do this has just the phenomenal plus, we now have the fabulous Rachel who helps us and does all of our social media and all of that stuff, and quite frankly, I don't know if we could live without her at this point, so... Thank you, Rachel, for the engine that we got together, so... Yeah.


0:04:12.1 S2: It's been your favorite, Ron, what's been your favorite thing about doing this? Other than that, obviously... Well, I mean, there's... The awl answer, which is that it's been so cool to... As someone who loves listening to and reading advice columns to get to partner with you guys and actually give advice, but if I'm being completely honest, which is how I feel, I am so bossy. I love telling people when they are doing things wrong and how they could be doing them better, this is just something that I've come to accept about myself over the years, and like I always ask if people want the advice, and I don't give it... If they don't want it, but if someone's asking me, it has really just been so delightful once a month to sit down and know that what I'm actually supposed to be doing is having strong opinions about... I believe a total stranger should be living their life, so


0:05:06.8 S1: It's been a big thing that


0:05:09.3 S2: May... That is legit. I was at one is always honest on Arion is the podcast, which are initially your idea... It was funny, 'cause you told me about it and Avery come to me and said, I wanna do a podcast. And I was like, You know what, you guys are talking about the same thing at the same time. I must be here to be a...


0:05:31.4 S1: It was a B.


0:05:33.7 S2: And now that I am doing it with you guys, I can't imagine doing it by myself, I don't think it would be nearly as fun, so I'm so glad it happened this way At to be, to be a... Just wanted to thank you guys. I don't even know what my role is in this tree out sometimes, but it's been eye-opening for me and lots of fun and really lets me un-feral a bit because I can be very insular. So yeah. So that lets you do that. So thank you for that, I appreciate that. It's a pleasure, and I'm so glad that other people, by virtue of listening to this get to see how delightful and beautiful you are when you went for a lot of Stonehouse. Also, it should be awesom.


0:06:20.5 S1: Okay, I like a little note like... Yes, exactly.


0:06:26.5 S2: Welcome to you. This is a SaaS town USA over here.


0:06:32.0 S1: Yes, this is just an all


0:06:34.9 S2: Huge... Yes, Groupon, the shots of


0:06:40.9 S1: A... Well, you know what, I think maybe we can tell folks that coming up this year, we're hoping to be able to do something fun and in person... Yeah, and I'm not sure how far we are on those negotiations... Can talk about that, 'cause I think we're gonna have to find a way around the obstacles.


0:07:01.6 S2: But I think we can, because of the way things are in the world, I think we can find a way around the obstacle and just make it more intimate than what we ever is initially thinking of doing.


0:07:09.5 S1: So... There you go. That's all we can tell you at this point. But we'll have


0:07:13.7 S2: To get up much... Be vicious enough for you.


0:07:18.4 S1: There we go. Okay, so here, but before we go any further in our love fest and get to our letter writer, I have to let everybody know this episode of jeremias writer is sponsored by a lecture to three witches by Elizabeth as it's out now from Kensington. I don't know if you guys have seen this cover yet, it's beautiful, just the one, so eye-catching, looking up, all three of you are at your computers and to everlasting is probably somewhere here, or go look up this cover... It's so pretty. So it is called My 10 to three witches, like I said By Lisbeth as so here is part of the blurb for they have it... What they have for it, it says the which means Practical Magic in the mariner rom-com with an enchanting with When romance problems cause their powers to go reserve a trio, which is whose family was banned from practicing magic was getting in serious trouble with the Grand Council. Can they get their magic and their love lives in order before it's too late, so they had me preeminence, I love me with romance, especially stuff that folks on Good Reads are calling a zany fund.


0:08:37.6 S1: I am a sucker for is a no shock there. So what you all think, is this something that could possibly be on your TV or at least your cover... Lust show.


0:08:50.0 S2: I love the cover it... Yeah, I Temescal, which is... I was like, Yep. Okay, no, Practical Magic section's. Prema is on my every year watch at Halloween. Well, any time to time of year, right? Yeah.


0:09:05.1 S1: Yeah. Well, and that kitchen. Absolutely. Sorry to Maine, that kit. Kingdom of my sister, my sister movie, my sister and I love that movie. So any time we hang out, we will put Practical Magic on and...


0:09:24.7 S2: No. Cool. Deeply identify with the sisters, so yeah, I'm game either a half... She won't watch it with you, so I watch it by myself, I


0:09:35.3 S1: Guess you can watch with me and my sister, we stole a movie night, a virtual movie night, so I can do it, I have that bonding with somebody 'cause... Yeah.


0:09:45.1 S2: I just wanna watch it with me.


0:09:47.1 S1: So I think that iteration My


0:09:51.4 S2: God, I have so many thoughts and feelings about it... Yeah, I've only seen it in the film once, so... No, I know, I know I can be his shots. Resinous know that I just watched hocus pocus for the first time this Halloween, right? Yeah, right. Serial of us would sit on a YouTube and watteau.


0:10:21.5 S1: All of our faces just went What? As we all got some buffering thing, but we cannot go any further here until I know everything that you thought about the movie...


0:10:35.6 S2: Well, I liked it, but I think it was one of those films that if I had seen it when it came out or earlier in life, I would have been like, Oh, this is a nostalgic faith, because now it's like, Oh, that was cute. You know what I mean? And I feel like I have FOMO. Yes, when it comes to the fore.


0:10:51.9 S1: I get that. Alright, so what I'm getting from this is that we are all down with the witches hall, thought the cover was just a tape for this, so we all be... Which leads Practical Magic, but that is a letter to three witches in his file is the fact it is out now, and you can get it wherever books are sold. And you can find out more at Kensington books, that


0:11:19.6 S2: Sweet peaking of hers, and also, which is egalitarian open.


0:11:41.6 S1: This is fantastic because this is a letter to us, which it's always started out, and how we wanna be, and we're so thrilled that you wrote to us...


0:11:55.5 S2: Colin, thank you. Alright, so here's this letter, Dear romance writer, I'm a middle age man that over the last few years stumbled into reading romance and found it very enjoyable, in fact, I found... We just stop there for a second to a easy... Just that first one, I was like, Yes. Okay, I'm sorry, calling. Okay, in fact, I found it so enjoyable that I've joined an online book club for romance lovers. We need on Zoom twice a month. If you may have guessed, I'm the only man in this group.


0:12:28.1 S1: But the members have been more than welcoming...


0:12:29.9 S2: That's awesome, it's... 'cause they are calling... The engagement has never been anything but about the books, the personal conversation never goes beyond... How are you in the family?


0:12:40.3 S1: Despite this, my wife has made some passive aggressive remarks about the book club, we have some group text chat going on, and when I get an alert, she'll make a comment about my women, which I tell her is ridiculous, all of these women are very happily married and more importantly, so am I, I've asked her to join the group, but she doesn't share my passion for romance owls, I asked if she would like me to stop going to the meetings because she's more important to me than them, she says she doesn't wanna be that kind of wife writers, do I just take the hint and stop going to the club meetings to keep the peace? All my best, Colin. Colin. Alright, I think we need to start with our virtual hug here for college first, we love call and come on in a reintegrate einasleigh. So while Collins wife says that she does not want to be that kind of life... She is. Yeah, thank you. I like to intentional, but be... And I guess she's in a little bit of denied it, so she's trying, at least in her head to do the right thing to be the person that she wants to be, she's just having problems carrying it out in real life.


0:13:59.9 S1: It is a dynamic in certain relationships, and there's always this discussion, if you are heterosexual and you were in a heterosexual relationship, you cannot be friends with people, or I don't want poor to be friends with people of the opposite sex, it never having been in it put a relationship. I don't know if that is an issue in other communities as well, but... Yes, so there is definitely that sort of like, I don't know, socially acceptable paranoia, I guess, within heterosexual relationships, and I think that Collin is handling all of this very upfront, very cowardly, and he seems very cognizant of sort of the land mines that are surrounding him currently. And yeah, I think... I'm not still Ronin. I think the only thing that you... Or I shouldn't say the only, but the best option, I think content right now is to sit down with his wife who he cares about... She cares about... Or she cares about him. There we go. And I only have three cups of coffee today, y'all, but to be able to sit down and actually have an honest discussion about this in a safe way where she feels comfortable in being able to express some of her ugly, because right now, she is feeling the ugly and she's trying not to express the ugly because she knows that she shouldn't...


0:15:48.9 S1: Is coming up to five that I get from there to the


0:15:52.5 S2: Ellen's coming out anyway, in those little passive aggressive, she met what we call here in the south. Nice. Nasty.


0:16:00.9 S1: Yes, yes. We just call it mid-western where I'm from, but yes, I just call it a fucking asshole where... East Coasters, that water would... You guys get called...


0:16:15.8 S2: Well, I wonder what the reluctance is for her to just sit in on one of the book meetings right at... So anti-romance is... Sheathing is a anti-romance, I think she'd be... Anything that was taking his attention, that anything that had to do with women, period, that was what a women... I think it would be that. I don't know, you think it has to do even with romance, 'cause I think if he was reading romance and it wasn't part of a group, it wouldn't be a problem... Oh no. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Treatises.


0:16:47.5 S1: A group of guys who read Romans... Yeah.


0:16:50.4 S2: When


0:16:50.7 S1: She wouldn't be through it... Is that opposite gender? I definitely.


0:16:54.7 S2: I only said that because he said she does not share my passion for romance, so if she's not a romance reader and maybe doesn't think of romance is something that he should read or she should read or whatever, her reluctant to just sit in on a meeting and see what goes on just to reassure herself is a little bit of a red flag, so I just wonder where the pushback is, you don't have to join the club, but just sit in on a meeting, you can see it on us... It all is, and she's reluctant to do that, then there's more going on here than I... I agree.


0:17:27.0 S1: Yeah, there may be, but it also could just be a situation where the wife was like, I don't wanna sit in on all of the super hockey conversations and my husband has... Right, no matter. Would just be, this is not an I like hockey, but it can be a... You know what, I have 45 minutes where during this book club, I can be putting my puzzles together and I'd much rather do that, you know, it could be something along that line, but I get in Orange.


0:17:54.6 S2: I'm curious, it doesn't sound like she has a problem with romance, at least that's not entering the discussion or the letter, but I do wonder if since Rome is something that he's getting into recently, if she doesn't recognize that her problem is with is actually is with him reading romance novels, not because she hates the genre, and I'm speculating here, but I wonder if she saw him getting into romance as step one of recognizing that maybe he isn't getting everything that he needs from her, 'cause you know how so many people who don't read romance to think that people who are in a relationship who read romance, it's because they're dissatisfied or they wanna fantasize about people who aren't their partners, like... Oh


0:18:32.2 S1: Yeah. So it could be an option, maybe just to talk to her and sort of explain, Hey, you might be seeing in this this way, but this is not what I actually... Why I'm reading it, I enjoy it because it's... Fish's just curious, and this is something that he won't know unless he asks, but I could see this being one of those dynamics where he started reading Romans, she kind... She unconsciously took it as a little bit of a job, like He is to fantasize about other relationships rather than the one he's in, and then when he joined this group to talk about them, she found her socially acceptable thing to get mad about, which was the being friends with a bunch of women, which is like a thing that I fundamentally don't understand, I think is so silly, but I recognize that it is a cultural or whatever. Right. And then it's like she didn't even understand her feelings about in-reading romance, and so she put it all on to this thing that is very recognizable, which is like, Oh, your women are calling go must go to your women, so that it looks like jealousy when in fact, it's fear instead, their relationship in security...


0:19:38.3 S1: Yeah, that their relationship is not as strong as she had thought it was, that maybe he would recognize something in these novels or in these other women that he would realize he wasn't getting from her. It reminds me so much of those partners who are so worried that if you make other friends that you won't like them anymore, and it's like everyone knows in a healthy relationship, you like that person so much that you could meet a ton of new friends and you would still wanna hang out with your person because they're your person, but if you're insecure in yourself and afraid about the relationship, it's so easy to get jealous and so easy to put that off on it being about and V of someone else, rather than fear that you are is not sufficient you...


0:20:22.0 S2: Right, 'cause it kinda reminds you of, you being friends with someone of the opposite sex does not take your... Even like, you know, you having a female best friend does not take your love of the friendship bank doesn't take your love of the wife, they don't come from the same place. It comes from a different account, so to speak, so it doesn't take from the Love account from the wife, it doesn't come from the same love account from a friend. So I get that and I love that content. To a tocantins in cloistered.


0:21:10.8 S1: Not too, but I'm not the esteem Harvey the group to be so ignorant.


0:21:25.4 S2: Right. I don't... Honorable up. Let's listen, okay, this is what you need to do. And understand that I'm not a counselor or a therapist, and there's a reason why I did not pursue that psychology degree in college, disclaimer, It is to just continue


0:21:57.3 S1: In that it is a sequential, and I don't wanna see you rock into a couch, but listen.


0:22:05.5 S2: You should sit her down, because what you cannot do is give up your romance books or give up your group, because it's a slippery slope, if you give them up, what next are you going to give up? What if you decide to try baking and she does not, and you decide to go to a baking class and there are more women in there, then there are men, or they're just more men in there and you're having a better time with the... She perceives that you're having a better time with the guys and you're having a better time with her, and she's threatened, and now she wants you to spend more time with her than the guys, and now in order to keep her happy, you have to do that, and now you're giving that up. Any time she perceives that you're attaching to someone else or she feels threatened about a new relationship with someone, or you have spending more time with someone else where she feels threatened by a new relationship with someone else, you have to give it up. It's a slippery slope, so you really need to sit her down and say, Hey, what's the problem, what exactly are you feeling threatened about...


0:23:16.9 S2: Forget the passive aggressiveness with your women, do you wanna go to a class with me.


0:23:23.5 S1: Do you want me to print out the text, the messages in the group, do you wanna see that there is nothing personal going on only... Do talk about his romance. Do you wanna read a book with me? Do you wanna listen to an audio book with me, do you... If you don't like romance, what do you like? And I'll spend time with you doing that and we'll discover something that we like to do together, and I'll spend time with you doing that together, but we each to have something that we enjoy separately as well as together, because we can't spend time in each other's back pocket were two separate people.


0:23:58.1 S2: So let's discover what it is, what's at the root of this, because we have to be two individuals, we can't have this passive aggressiveness that's gonna eat away at our relationship... Exactly, absolutely. Let's discover it and we're not gonna move until we discover what it is, you're gonna have to talk to me, 'cause this isn't gonna work, and you're gonna have to sit them on and grow down and discover what it is and get to the root of it. To say, to say to give it up is really going to start a pattern that you're gonna end up resenting the later, so that's just at the answer


0:24:40.6 S1: To... And I would honestly say that not that this is cheating and not that it's the same, but you know the saying that the cheating is the symptom, it's not actually the root problem... Right. Some people are dirt. Backseat is not the thing. And so to me, what I see is it's not actually the romance club, it's not actually the romance reading, it's not actually the romance club, it's not actually the fact that it's a group of women... What is at the heart of this is that for some reason, she is not feeling secure in that relation... Right, right. The fact that she be selling an ad up, she feels threatened. I agree with ACT.


0:25:25.5 S2: I agree that it's fear.


0:25:26.8 S1: It's like it's fear. It sounds like it's fear, and so sitting down and having the conversation, do it in a neutral location, don't do it right after a meeting, I find these conversations are awesome in the car because everybody's trapped and nobody getting... So


0:25:50.2 S2: I had my best away home from work, no tips.


0:25:56.8 S1: But it's also the best time to have a conversation with teenagers, just trust me on it, but we... This, having this conversation and actually getting to the point of being able to say, Hey, you are... I hate this term. You're in a safe space. You are in a safe space to be able to talk about this stuff. Obviously, there's something going on right here. There's a... Instead of saying You were insecure about this, I personally would approach it in the vein of you are feeling that a need is not being met, one of your needs is not being met, so I want to be able to figure out what we can do to better to meet this need. And it can go, like you talked about love accounts, but it could also be like... The love language thing may be... Her love language is spending time together, and so that's why she's like, That's our thing, right? And it may not be something that calling perceives that way, but she may even be subconsciously perceiving it it that way, so again, the conversation, not right after a group meeting, not right after she's made a pass to aggressive comment, but to actually sit down and approach it that way, and to be able to really just lay it out there and just be like, We're solitary, this isn't that, but you obviously have needs that are not being met, so let's talk about that so you can be more comfortable.


0:27:30.1 S1: It might put you put too much around it, so...


0:27:32.4 S2: I was gonna say the other side of this, which he did not say anything about, but it's there is how this makes him feel... He's found something that brings him immense joy and he's so happy to have found this thing... Yes, you can share it. What he wanted to share with her, she didn't want any part of it, so he found people to share it with, and he's so happy about this and testing whether either directly or indirectly stopped doing this thing... That brings you so much joy. Yeats a good point. So he's trying to find a way to make her feel better without addressing how this is a easiest version... Yeah, yeah. So I think that that has to be part of that conversation. Yeah.


0:28:18.2 S1: I think that's such a great point, you and I definitely see


0:28:21.9 S2: A... Yeah, I have had the experience of having a close friend asked me not to hang out one-on-one with her boyfriend, and I was so hurt and so offended because this is someone who had known me very well, and I was like, If you don't know by now that I would never do that, then our relationship has not been what I thought it was, and I don't know.


0:28:54.4 S1: Yeah, and she never ever had me again because that friendship was over a aeros.


0:29:02.4 S2: That's a whole different conversation to the A not wanting you're having in one relationship or one friendship, and it turns out to be something else. Yeah, episode. I think that bringing up that if I were in Collins position and I was doing something that I really, really loved with a group of people that also really loved it, and my partner made passive aggressive comments accusing me basically of cheating on her, I would be so hurt, I would be like, Do you actually not know that I would never do that in... And of course, we can talk about it, but that's the assumption, the assumption that that just by hanging out around people with vagina, he was gonna fall penis first into one... It could happen.


0:29:50.7 S1: It could happen here. There's accidental anal, so there's like... It's all a...


0:29:57.0 S2: Or not even if it's just to give her the opportunity to say, Oh, I know you would never do that. It's just my insecurity is enough to use the situation to the point where they can find some common ground, but right now the way to her, he has to feel rejected, and then he's like he has to also kind of find some way to come to here because you're right, he is being accused of something that he wouldn't do, and now he's coming from a place where he's been put on the defense, and so he has to find a way to come to that conversation, saying... First of all, he has to... That's a hard conversation I have, number one. 'cause you're like, Listen, I would never do that. Number one, and number two, you let's have a conversation about trust, and always when you come to whom... A lot of times when you come to women and you're like, Let's have a conversation about trust, you have to do it in a way where you're not putting her on the offense it now... And you have to approach that, the language you use is just as important about having the conversation, so we watch her film, don't watch to watch


0:31:26.2 S1: A lot. Dooley, he's a lamb. You have been a doctor. He was a Ettore years calling 45 or... Yeah, no, I agreed with everything she sat up until that last bit, but you know what, my outback on here, there is a reason though, why we as a species, 97% of the time do our best to avoid any kind of emotional or uncomfortable discussion competitor and it's especially hard if it's somebody you truly love, this was just someone... You don't wanna hurt them, I wanna hear them. You don't wanna hurt them and you actually do want to get to a good resolution for... Right. Yes, but so calling... What I kind of gathered is our three points, 'cause you all know I look, but three points, talk your life, number one, to give her both of you all in the same space to be able... In the neutral location, to be able to both show your real true feelings and to be able to talk about it honestly and respectfully... Honestly, in respectfully and then three, I think at this point, you kind of both need to reassure each other or about your relationship and your unique positions within that relationship...


0:32:57.5 S1: Right, because I think co made a really good point, just as budgets, like insecure, her response is to kind of passively aggressively get you and accusing of, or at least alluding to possible around doing, which franchi will also say for the emotionally stunted and married amongst us like me, that there is a constant joke in our house about life, 20, so if 20 take care of that for you, you have a totally different attitude about that, but that is part of the every day Peter pattern of our pretty much never gonna end marriage. So until one of us gets to... Maybe the other question is, because some people are like me, make jokes that aren't always appropriate, so is she trying to make a joke and it's just bad, it doesn't say like, Oh.


0:34:04.9 S2: Mesas always a kernel of truth in those kinds of jokes. Yeah, that's definitely passive. I know, cause I'm the Queen a passive aggressive in my house, and that was passages Ive in that boost. Definitely, I do like my husband's a minister, so I know how to pull out the man... A God joke in a minute.


0:34:34.2 S1: I don't know what I'm saying.


0:34:36.7 S2: You nowhere about now what you...


0:34:39.4 S1: Colin, welcome to the world. Romance, excited to have you. Yeah, glad that you're enjoying reading... We really help you get this accolade... Send us a update. Yeah.


0:34:58.3 S2: Keep enjoying yourself. Yeah, just do you...


0:35:04.6 S1: But that's actually different up, so when we talk about that, we have not talked about masturbation in a while, it's very ABIM, so... Sorry. That's usually my role, I've really dropped the ball on a tee. Yamanote, that topic today. Yeah, thank you for sitting in your letter though, calling a-a, you were out there and you go, you are... Some of you would love some questionable advice, please do send in your letter to us, you can send it annotate for our website, which is... You're the order. Romance writer, holy cow. Do romance rater dot com, there's a little length to submit your letter, it's anonymous, same thing with sending a DM through any of our roles, so let us know, we're free you. That was a quite a letter, I gotta tell you that went all sorts of different places. That's a great one.


0:35:59.7 S2: Thank you. Really can.


0:36:01.8 S1: All right, so I have to tell you guys that I just inhaled the second season of mythic class, which is a show about ease, this gaming company on Apple plus, and I've avoided this, even though I had been recommended to me forever because I was like, This looks really stupid. And I show incredibly well-written. It is so incredibly well written, the first season was really good, but the second season is give away, it is all up and down. It is a love letter to the creative process in all of its pain and pleasure, and it takes place over an entire season, and it ended in a place that I never expected, there was a two-part episode about a guy who was the spirit and won a nebula, and they dropped all of these publishing house, it's like, Oh, and then you were published by Tor, and then there was sin, I was just peeking out about that because they obviously actually know what they're talking about. Right, right. And that the episode arc did such a beautiful covering of professional jealousy, and also in the circle of publishing or sometimes you're a price, sometimes you're download, it also got a critique group, Helicobacter, and then a critique group.


0:37:23.9 S1: I have been that. It's a whole experience that cover... The writing room obviously knew what they were talking about it, and it was amazing. So it really got me thinking about the joy and the misery of being a writer and a creative, and I wanted to ask you, but how do you balance those highs and lows, you know, the happy to say, the collaborations, the fights like with editors and so that love and jealousy also, that comes with being a writer... How do you hesitate?


0:38:03.8 S2: I have a lisp election to Israel, lots of Benadryl to me, who basically...


0:38:19.2 S1: Like I said, I... Birendra weed are the same thing, so I... Iterations, yeah. Or substances as a one... Oh


0:38:32.9 S2: My god, I was gonna central in substance. Maybe they'll sponsor you or a responsible... Before it gets wonderful. It's the dishes. You can reach her at.


0:38:48.9 S1: Sarai getting so far is substance and emotional damage, and the... We smile so much that I do a Cairo the pain as... There you go. Right, to give some tips. You allia I... Stylistic week.


0:39:17.3 S2: I just called a friend and I called her and she answered... I said, Do you mind if I did? And she was like, Why do you even call and ask me that... Just do it. And I've been at Fort Street 20 minutes, and by the time I got off, I felt so much better. It's like, didn't take the problem away, but I felt better 'cause I was able to just get it off my chest and able to just, Okay, I'm not alone. And then go back and kinda start to tackle the problem, take it and bites to go ahead. But I just felt like I wasn't alone, just friends who just like those people out there who you're close enough to and that you have a relationship with who will let you vent and you know what's evolved and that you can get it off your chest. Up. Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. I find that what happens for me is I get much more angry, like anger is the emotion that I feel most often from the whiplash between the highs and lows, which is interesting to me because I'm a pretty chill person in some ways, but then when something really pisses me off, I'm just like, I wanna rant about it, I wanna...


0:40:45.1 S2: Whatever, but I find that it's like, it's much less the actual highs and lows of my own publishing career that ever get to me, I actually think I deal very well with the ups and downs of it because I'm like, Yeah. Life is 50-50. It's not like I ever expect that everything's gonna be good, and hopefully my good days don't expect that everything is gonna be bad, so that actually doesn't feel that hard to me, it's more the discourse, like the discourse around publishing issues that happen with regard to folks... Not feeling good in the community, not feeling like chances are equitably distributed, being harmed by what people write. It's like the para stuff, which to me is much more important, 'cause it's like if I sell a book, that's awesome, and I feel great for a minute, but then if I log on to Twitter and people are being resisted anti-Semitic and misogynist in four seconds, my blood pressure is up and all the nice fun of selling a book is gone, and then so it's like I feel like the stuff that is just about me, I deal with quite well, and the stuff that is about everything else, I just...


0:42:01.4 S2: Oh, god just gets me. Yeah, true, I can see that with the care for... I don't know I dealing with that except to have someone you can vent to. Have people who are good at reminding you that even though this is the center of our world, it is not in any way to center open the world always. The Internet's not the center. How malanda is the North Pole and is the son tonnes Star and made... I forgot to say at the top of the episode, Happy Black History Month, it were... Which brings me to something that Ron was saying. I think that for me, the highs and lows tend to revolve around these conversations about diversity in publishing and the lack of... Or people who think that they're getting... Authors, marginalized authors are getting too much attention in a month, like Black History Month, I have really mixed feelings about what happens during it because there's this focus on black authors and that's great. Right, but then it's like a lot of it, 90% of it drops off after March first, and then also within the conversation, there's this arguments inside between who writes What in the black community and are they black enough? And all the set of stuff.


0:43:30.7 S2: And it's just so freaking depressing, it's like I just wanna write a really good book that people will enjoy, I wanna represent the people I wanna represent, I want to tell the stories on the towel and do it in a respectful way, and it's like, you get... There's so much granular. And so, yeah, those things get to me in order to get over those depressive moments because I have way more of those, and I do have personal ones, I try to reach out and help other people, and that's my way of pushing past that, so I'll go into... We have a group I run and I part of Colville romance, which is like a little writers group, we haven't filing, I'll go and be like, Oh, who needs help with a blurb, like, Hey, you body heart, this police has an open call. You know what I mean? Or, Hey, let me ping so and so see if they wanna do some planning or something like that, because otherwise you just get buried in the muck and it's easy to get dragged down like that, so I think... And it sounds like Collins or whatever, but that is not how I feel.


0:44:30.8 S2: It isn't 'cause I just read, I just saw a post and it's so true, and I didn't even realize that I do it until I've read it, and it was a post about doing the small, nice things, and it was in mind all say things about Dr. Bill, but it was on doctoral. It's something that I've just always done. And I didn't get it from Dr. Phil, she got it. For my mother, it was about giving what you don't have, and I do have... People have done this for me, but giving what you don't have means if someone isn't giving you kindness thing, you give what you don't have, if someone isn't giving you kind words or giving you help or boosting you are giving... You were encouraging it for whatever reasons, or like what you just said to you, like those conversations that kind of just not kind... They depressed me too. And did you go when you do that for someone else? And I do that because those conversations hurt me, especially when they're directed at you, and so I make it a point to give someone else what I don't receive exactly, and that helps to bring me out of the mug of then...


0:46:02.2 S2: So yeah, I just have to be careful not to give away, which I tend to do more than you have, right, so you're in your well is to Elise completely. Why am I so tired and drained and it too... Anything


0:46:12.8 S1: I like


0:46:14.2 S2: Elite moments where it's like, God is just... This is ridiculous. I just go just like random, just random Mexico is you just a random act notorious.


0:46:27.0 S1: Like drop a comment, just drink up comment on the poems, your covers gorgeous. And then...


0:46:33.4 S2: Yeah, or share a cover reveal in the first one, the cotton, and they're like, Yeah, gosh, I shared... My correlation is like, just interesting someone for a second, just a second. And that's all it takes. Just things like that. I love that.


0:46:49.2 S1: I think for me, the most frustrating part of this industry, and I think it kind of encompasses all of what we've said, is the lack of personal control as somebody who... The control freak. That is a ETA exact way. So you can't control... I'm trying to figure out, you can't control the discourse, the discourse is what it is, and you know what a lot of times would set in the discourse or what starts a discourse is important. We do need to talk about telling stories and on voices, although invoices is so muddled at this point in time, but all of those things, are we being misogynistic within our own community, which a lot of times we are... Are we being homophobic? Are we being queer phobic? Are we being racist? Are we being to be able to take a critical look at ourselves, all of that important, that doesn't, however, change the fact that that impact can land in places where it shouldn't be... I guess it's kind of where I go, so we can't control that, right? We can't control how long it takes for an agent to get back, we can't control how readers react to our books, we can't control the fact that...


0:48:24.7 S1: You know what, we tried this promotional push with both A and it worked wonders and with book be it can't do shit, and we lose they're not... It's not even gonna come out because... Booked so bad, right? I think if you were a writer and you have not been in the fetal position on the floor, other your phone at some point in... You don't really give a shit about what you do, and God bless you, I wish I could be that dad. My God, I have never been crawled up in a fetal position on the floor, and I totally care about what I do, I have to just come clean about this one... Is that inside a sense? No. So we took it away. Alright, go and go


0:49:11.3 S2: On. WEEI formed part two.


0:49:18.5 S1: It's the soul sucks. Just like to drop in here that Dr. Phil, in Dr. Sophie talked about that too, but I Ottery bes, but for me, that's really hard to accept. And it's hard to understand, and every time I get to a point in time in my career where I think I got that, I understood that it made its impact, it sits with me, I sit with it. We're sitting... Something happens and yeah, I am not sitting with it, I'm trying to stop it and it's something... So that happens all the time, and I think one of the best piece of bid price that I ever got was about being a writer, was to keep your day job, which I don't longer have one anymore, and it has changed my writing life. Phenomenally. Anomaly isn't always great, but just it has had a massive impact how I write, how I feel about writing, the pressure I feel with writing all of that stuff that changed dramatically, but... Are you glad you did it? Some day. Some days not. Because again, what can I control? You have... And I am at my heart a very practical person, so being able to know I have the money in my account to pay my mortgage, and next week I'm gonna get paid by my company and I'm gonna have money in my account to my mortgage, and I'm like...


0:50:58.1 S1: Well, so we'll see. Caiman, I will just be very frank, I am successful and I still work your ass off, you... But that still is there. Right. So again, it's things you can't control, and for me, that is the hardest part of this business, and the only thing that gets me through the only offer advice that I would offer on that lack of control thing is do your best to be accepting of it, tigray scary it. It's not even questionable advice, it's shitty advice, I have nothing better to offer them that


0:51:49.4 S2: Ethereal, the publishing industry is way more predictable and easier to control in terms of your income than the music industry.


0:52:00.7 S1: Oh, I believe that. I'm so glad I don't... I totally... Ali came from that to this, it seems like a logical to you then... Yeah.


0:52:12.5 S2: I understand, I understand the fallacy of everything because I've seen it again. You know what I mean? And I understand what what I mean. So it's not as like, Oh, you about were more... Are you more comfortable publishing? Do you feel more stable and comfortable... Mersin, terms of stability. Yeah. Wow. 'cause it's... Cartel you something scary? Yeah, that's... It's next to him, I mean a drink. Next to impose outlining. Now, as a musician, especially right now... Yeah, yeah. If I were trying to tour right now the way I was when I first started this, I can't... Yeah, this is... But even besides all that, like the whole industry has changed in the last five or six years to talk and stuff, I change remain everything. Everything


0:53:09.9 S1: I will say I saw like a breakdown of what musical artists make from a different streaming platform and what our royalties get looked like, reasonable, and our operation...


0:53:26.3 S2: My dad is an all... That's like he's at all... 'cause I talk to him about everything. Is this way? He's like, Man, you pick the right justice.


0:53:40.1 S1: It's all about you're comparing it to... Right, 'cause I came from academia, and so I'm always like, Well, publishing moves so quickly, it's really nice that you entertain it and then you'll have a book in a year in academia.


0:53:53.4 S2: It was like Cool, I set my journal article to be reviewed eight months ago, the website says, if you haven't heard in 12 months, you should send a follow-up to this automated around, then go knock on an underground chamber somewhere, burn a candle upside down, cut off your own knee. And maybe they'll get back to you, or meetee miseries


0:54:17.5 S1: To publish. And you know what, it's not a bad trusty to tell a Eleonore doing anything else.


0:54:30.5 S2: Well, I wouldn't go into this business trying to be a millionaire either, I have to have to really love what you telling to be in this... But I remember when I... When I saw my first book and I went outside, 'cause I was working at the bank at the time, and so I had got my first contract, and I went outside and I called my mother and she had uh... She was baby sitting my kids at the time when I called my mother, and I was like, Connick...


0:54:57.3 S1: She was like, Wait, you cry. Your mom by her first name. Oh


0:55:01.5 S2: Yeah, that's a story, but all right, my editor is listening to this 'cause she got... In my case, when I put that in my book, she's like, What do you mean they're calling calling by the first name I... Yeah.


0:55:12.1 S1: I was like The whole... Only workers. She had my kids at the time, and I was like... And I was like, I sold my book and she's like some working in a background. My son was like, Oh, my son of my niece and Oh my God, we're gonna be... Rawlinson, wrong one here. I started laughing at that. Oh, no. We're not gonna be reached.


0:55:47.8 S2: No, it's fine. I got a royalty or royalty statement from one of my streaming distributors for five cents every quarter, I get a five cent, the most I've got, it was 25 cents a teaming to Spotify samsara. The end of the year, I could buy a cup of Colmar taxes. Yeah, that's a... Sayeth, my girlfriend is also a musician, and she was shown in a royalty statement and they're like, Oh, they actually don't send you the actual amount of money if it's below 15, it just gets put here, and I was like... Some place is 50. Yes, bad news.


0:56:29.7 S1: Okay, can I say one more thing? 'cause I realized that I said I didn't have any good advice about personal things, but actually that was an accidental life, 'cause I have a thing that I always think to myself, We Tatiana a lot... It


0:56:43.1 S2: Was a Islamist on... I actually think the thing that is most helpful for me, and there will be people who, if you're like me, this might vibe with you and for everyone else, you'll be like, Why would that do anything whatsoever. But the thing that helps me the most is any time anything shitty or shady or irritating is going on with publishing, I say to myself, You make the choice to do this every day, and tomorrow you can make a different choice. And what it does for me is it reminds me that I have freedom, I have the ability to make choices, now, those choices aren't necessarily... I might say, I might make a choice to not do this and then I go work at a coffee shop or whatever, it doesn't mean I can just quit and be like, Cool, I'm gonna go be a movie star Instead, watch this space. But yeah, it helps me to remember, and I feel like people give their power away every day, they're like, I don't really get... I have to do it this way, my publisher told me this, so I guess I have to... I'm sure sometimes you have to compromise, that's part of being a professional and an adult in the world, but you never have to do anything.


0:57:48.4 S2: You can walk away at any time. This is what I say to myself, You can walk away at any time. You are a capable person who could make a living in another way, if you chose to, you can write whatever you want, it doesn't mean anyone's gonna read it, but nothing is happening you from writing whatever you want. And these are the things that I say to myself, and it actually fills me with so much joy because in those moments when I don't make a different choice, when I'm like, If you don't wanna write anymore, you can go do something else. And then the next morning, I still get up and I write, I'm like, Oh, oh, I must love this, I'm choosing this. This is an active choice. And I think for me, knowing that I have the freedom to make a choice, even if it's a choice that comes with something super fucked up and depressing or something you're attending or whatever, I get to own that choice because I made it, and for some reason that helps me massively, massively. Well, at, that's great. I think the autonomy that we have in this career, even if somebody's only doing it part-time, that's your time, that your career...


0:58:50.8 S2: You're the boss, you were driving it, and that's a sense that's some empowerment that you're giving yourself... I think is amazing. It's so true, it's so true. I like that. I really do. I'm a allotted truth than you. So I went there in to watch method question, just started watching community. So we're really late. Still haven't seen that. Oh, I think you would really like it. Too hard. It is a little cringe, but if you watched Parks and Rec, it's a bit like that. Okay.


0:59:25.9 S1: Yeah, if you have second-hand embarrassment issues...


0:59:28.8 S2: I do, I do, but I still enjoy parts. And rectifier is very good at in the office, it's very hetero, this, but this is more Parks and Rec that


0:59:43.0 S1: Off... I love Parks and Rec, and I hate the office, and I understand that it's a strange... People seem to either like both or dislike both, but... Yeah.


0:59:51.2 S2: I just finished binging Doc Martin. So as to... It's so good. Cool, my mom really loves it, and I haven't liked it, so my father called me and said, Watch this, and... Yeah, and he's been right. Like he was right about Gilmore Girls set for Season 7. The is to watch a seven. I just refused to watch it, said


1:00:20.1 S1: Ask me how he got me to walk the Oratorio, me not to like it, so then he got a one I love...


1:00:28.8 S2: The reason he told me he thinks I would enjoy is because of the writing, and the only thing he said that we both agree on is the diversity in that shoe, there's no black people, but we both enjoy like the writing, we'll sit down and we'll dissect every episode, except for Season Seven, I'm mad at everybody and I refused to watch it, but Doc Martin is... Okay, so good, it's so good. I've just bend it. So yeah, I'm gonna try. So good, so good. We just started watching Abbot elementary Eastside Oatlands Adele entry. But the other one which really surprised me, which might be my favorite show this year so far is American auto, the American auto is... Is really good. It's a Etisalat, her name Melin con, is it metalcore? It's an A. Gairdner, she is amazing. She plays the new CEO of an Umar, an auto company, she came from pharmaceuticals, so she loves this company, and it's like The Office, but nowhere near as cringe if they took that whole mockumentary sort of thing. Oh my gosh, we were shocked at how good it is special, someone watch the... I'm adding all of these to my list.


1:01:57.7 S1: I Asian year anniversary show, we are doing procreation, so everybody needs to watch 90 days... Fiance before the 90 days, I just want it throughout the reality TV entered it for sight, and now I'm watching the season life and I have no one to bitch about it with, and I... Otis, horrible. Okay.


1:02:23.3 S2: I watched last season, and I swore I do this every season, I swear that season is going to be my last season I'm watching, and


1:02:33.2 S1: Then about the... The episode five is when I start watching, so I'll probably be watching about a western... You call me. Yeah, I can... So something happens is utterly wretched, we don't even know, I need someone to talk shit about also body is always worth you're talking shit about, and that makes me... Not a lot that I


1:02:58.4 S2: Just always... A little while, I'm like, Yeah, retain is back at expand. One diversity you have here, and what we are mostly to on this has been a lot of freaking fun. Yeah, thank you so much, namor being here to you to tell everyone where they can find you, what you do, your latest release... Wait, 'cause you release a book like a day, so tell me... Yeah, it feels like I'm like, I feel like there's a book always coming out for name and that I can't wait to get my hands on, so what's happening? What's going on?


1:03:44.9 S1: Well, March first will be the new Rosendale loosened that series to go back to the one, and then March 29th will be the next rose, Ben will be the third role been falling, not a Toros. Bends in the same line.


1:04:06.5 S2: Yeah, it'll be the novella loveless, and then on a 29th of March will be the full links novel with love from Rosebery, get two in one month. And where can people find you on the socials?


1:04:20.1 S1: Of course not. Www name, website, and then I... Artemisia.


1:04:31.8 S2: S-I-M-O-N-E dot com. We'll put it, it'll be on all the websites and LinkedIn.


1:04:37.2 S1: Everything... Yes, their Facebook is name a-son author.


1:04:41.4 S2: And Instagram is name, son, author, and Twitter. I'm not over there a lot, I'm not even leads... I think it's name is Monster, I think


1:04:55.7 S1: Where it might be name or... It's not in the Ontario in sororit. Anyone was there. Yeah, I said.


1:05:08.3 S2: But I am underscore or


1:05:11.5 S1: You'll fire me. Yeah.


1:05:13.6 S2: Yeah. You'll find me at a Satanist you want? Yeah, I'm mostly over at... On Facebook and Instagram though. Awesome, well, thank you again for being here. It was a otahuhu. Yes, a virtual watch party. Yes, you guys clause. I feel like I haven't seen... It has been so long, I feel like I have no gotta, but thank you everyone for tuning in today and for hanging out with us when I guess our one year anniversary. So thank you, thank you. We will be back next week with another episode of Dear romance writer, and I don't remember it. Who's with this next week? Is it


1:05:56.7 S1: Collet me take a pose? Catasys, yes.


1:06:02.6 S2: As the bastion, another fabulous often. Oh my gosh, that's gonna be amazing too, so yeah, so tune in, I remember to send in your questions... Thank you again, calling for your letter, we wanna hear from you, I just know how things are going, and we wanna give a outstanding your questions, your comments, your... Whatever you wanna chat about, we're happy to go to, so we can't wait to give you some more questionable advice from this trail of happily ever after enthusiasts. See you next time.


1:06:30.1 S1: Hi everybody.


1:06:42.8 S2: Thank you so much for subscribing to Dear romance writer. Remember to keep sending in those letters, I demonstrate com, we can't wait to tell you what to do.


1:06:51.6 S1: Your romance writer is part of the frolic podcast network, find more podcasts you love, framed podcast.

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