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0:00:11.0 S1: And they're welcome to the romance writer, were three writers who always deliver happily ever after offer questionable advice for all of your relationship work and life problems. I'm Zeo. Excellent, I'm a rifle and I'm run parish. We've got a great show for you today. Joining us is a selling author, Megan quin. Welcome Megan, we're so happy to have you with us. Do you wanna go ahead and tell everyone listening a little bit about yourself?


0:00:37.8 S2: Sure, thank you guys for having me. I am a mother of two five-year-old and three-year-old, and I live in a one that you learn what you say... I said, You're running with a three and a five-year-old... Holy cow. Yeah, yeah. Three or five year old and they're actually, they're adopted and their biological siblings, so full biological tithing, they love sliding across the floor, ones on pants are absolutely demolished year buying new pants, I swear every week we even tried patching them, doesn't work. Besides the home life to comedies, and I am a hybrid author or so I write with motion and then I also publish in a nice... Very fun books. Very beautiful covers. I love your covers. They just do a great job on those. Yes. So we are really excited to have Megan here with us to draw her into or chaotic hold today. And speaking of chaos, a couple of things, number one, I am super excited. Number one, 'cause I'm old, so I actually remember when all of this happened, so you young kids... So families, Tommy Lee made a tape for their private use many, many moons ago, if you don't know who they are, pain Anderson was like at this point, time, vs symbol in the United States.


0:02:19.8 S2: Tommy, an amazing drummer with an insane band called Motley Crew. Alright, so I guess I can back up. So his career basically, no face time was there was kind of at its peak at this point in time, alright. They made a private sex Day, they had it in a safe, it was stolen, and back in the day, this was before you could get a ton of internet porn, so what they were doing is the people were making a tape, they were dubbing it, basically... Somebody would go and buy it and they would mail them out, this is so old, they would bail them out of video tape of VHS video tape of the stolen facials, it was all anyone could talk about. It was a huge scam, a huge story. Alright, so cruel. Is it who... I think it's too... Maybe it's


0:03:23.6 S1: A... No, it's too... One of the two...


0:03:25.7 S2: One of the streaming services inverter doing a series, I thought it was just a movie, but it's called Payment i series, it's a series, which I didn't realize until today, so many series, I'm guessing. Yeah, like a limited... Theresienstadt is playing Tommy Lee and he actually looks pretty close to it, and Lily James as do a panel, I understand whoever did her make up in here is Jesuits, did a phenomenal job for it. They deserve every ward. So it's getting read each premier, number one, if you haven't seen what she wore to the Premier, I highly suggest to go to either go fug yourself or tonner-anzo, and you can see it, it is a trash heap. It is insanely garbage out that it's so bad. It's worse. Essentially, James


0:04:22.8 S1: E. She's the daughter of, Oh yes, I do. Yeah.


0:04:29.1 S2: What's your dad? It's the dates, it's not Phil College. She's not to call on notionally


0:04:35.9 S1: Collins to hang on. Alright, good. Okay, well, SE, I alliteration in it as I'm lying...


0:04:42.9 S2: It is a trash heap amount anyways, I'm a big... And both. Oh my God. But anyways, so it was interesting to me because they are positioning this sort of in light of the Britney Spears documentary, in light of some of the past revisiting of scandals and saying how wrong we did the women involved to the instances. Right, so they're trying to push it almost as if a way of giving Pamela Anderson back her agency, they're really pushing the fact that, yes, both Al Anderson and Tommy Lee and the sex tape that was soon affected both of them, but it affected them completely differently because he's stud and she's... The slab is basically what it boils down to, and I guess I had... The argument has had a very, very negative effect on her career.


0:05:41.2 S1: How to do one on Jane Jackson and Justin Timberlake


0:05:44.7 S2: Ejection is getting her own documentary at that...


0:05:48.1 S1: 'cause I hate podcast, there's a podcast episode. I think about... You're wrong about the a situation, which I haven't listened to yet, but I'm curious, 'cause they usually do a great job of breaking down all the cultural norms of why it's always a woman who he hates.


0:06:08.6 S2: So their positioning, rest is almost like a way for Pamela Anderson to reclaim her agency back, to show it as sort of a how bad she was treated type of thing, which I was, Okay, I'm on board with, and then I'm reading and supposedly, according to her paladins people, she is completely re-traumatized by this. He was not involved in any of it. She did not have to the story being made and approved the script, and she didn't... None of it. And so for supposedly, according to the gas, this is basically retraining because it's like this horrible awful moment and time, and here she comes back at it, so I thought it would be kind of interesting, what are you guys... When you're looking at this now, when does it become as storytellers, when does it become a violation, and when is it a way to give somebody their agent back because we desired by real events, you know, we may get inspired, but where does that... Where is that line? The doesn't shoot that people should think about that before they support it, so... There you go. That was really long. But that's my question.


0:07:35.2 S1: She didn't sign off on it. I don't know how you could say anything good about it being, Oh, it's redemptive, it's whatever like... She didn't agree to this. Do you know what I mean? If you wanna write a story about how women are mistreated in scandals, fiction to a fictionalized version of some other closely... You know what I mean? Like, why do this... Especially if they knew, which I can't imagine they did this story without approaching either party and saying, Hey, we're doing this thing, just eye...


0:08:05.6 S2: One of the articles I read said that because I immediately felt out a rabbit, but when I saw that, see, this is what one bad out that could do to me, right. Hollering online. But I guess the film maker said that they approached her and she was not interested in being involved, Tommy Lee also not involved, but I guess he has more of a comical to it, but I would think it was a Tamera ion to it where he's just like Well, you know, I'm interested to see how that good tree. And that's it. Yeah.


0:08:45.0 S1: I agree with... So we hear that's a consent issue, and as people whose job it is to separate what's the line between something that is sexy and challenging and pushes the boundaries, and what's the line between non-consent... I feel like this is actually a great example. Does that mean that the film or the mini-series might not... It might still do good, in other ways, can still... You can start a cultural conversation with a story that happened to one person and that cultural conversation can have a positive impact, but you have to... But you have to acknowledge that what you're saying is, I believe that sacrificing this one individual person's life is worth the gains that we will make politically, socially and morally in society, and I think that what people often are unwilling to do is to admit to that calculus but that's the calculus is if someone is like, I don't consent to this, I don't want it to happen, I don't wanna be involved. It's gonna re-traumatize me. And they're like, Okay, cool, cool, I understand, but think of the good it'll do for so many other people, then that's a choice that they can make, but I think then to go on and pitch it as something that's about her redemption Ark is absolutely fallacious and shameful honestly, yeah, it's definitely...


0:10:09.5 S2: It's kind of crazy. Well, it's kind of like the crown, if you think about it, you guys see that next, they take the storyline of the Royal Family and they say that it's fictionalized, but we're watching and we know the history of everything that's going on, and even at that... I can't imagine being William or hairy and watching it in or I doubt that they do, but having all of that drama come back up again... It can be very hurtful. For me, if you're going to do something like a biopic, is that what it's called? A, somewhere around here, I feel like there definitely needs to be consent because they can say it's fictionalized all they want, but in reality, it's bordering the line of being fiction and being true, because all of the events are very, very similar. So people are gonna take it the way that they want to, and you're kind of re-developing a story that is not true.


0:11:20.3 S1: Honest, I feel like we're in this interesting moment where I don't know if you all saw the... There's an article that was going around yesterday or today talking about the increase in books that are being optioned for film and TV, since during the pandemic streaming services are low on content and they're really willing to take more chances, it seems like...


0:11:42.3 S2: By the way, I wish that for all the cases, so much it be...


0:11:49.9 S1: But yeah, I feel like there's a sense now, especially of this content vacuum, where people want more and more and more content, and so these film folks are mining real life as the way they mind books to do adaptations, and they're like, Oh, built an audience because these people watched it happen in real life, and I think that there's like, I'm all for journalism, I'm all for cultural criticism, but there is a big difference to me between cultural criticism where you make reference to things that happened and look at them in a greater context and taking someone's actual real life, someone who's still live, someone who is still involved with the people that the story is about and saying, This is something that will make a great spectacle on TV, in the movies. That's a choice that people make, and I think it's a pretty... It's a bold choice, no matter what your opinion about it is, and we just don't talk very much, we... I think some of us are primed to think that just because we know something happened that means it's fair game for any amount of circus tent erecting and five cents a person barking, but the real people involved and I have a hard time.


0:13:11.9 S1: That would be my personal verse night air, no one wants to make a biopic about me, but I'm just saying like, I know myself, and the idea that something that happened to me in real life would suddenly become hyper visible in the culture to the point where I wasn't able to live my life without thinking about it every day and being recognized for it would ruin my life, like Brian, my mental health, my psychology, my ability to do the things I wanna do in my life. And because I feel that way for myself, I just like, I cannot imagine deciding to do that to another person. Yeah, yeah, I do, I say... Go ahead, not... I don't understand the idea that they did it with... There was a film that came out a couple of years ago about David Bowie, and his estate didn't want anything to do with this film, he didn't want this one that happened so much so that they refused to license any of his music to it, but the guy went ahead and made the film anyway, it got completely panned, and all of the reviews were like, Why would you make a film one...


0:14:11.0 S1: You know, they don't want you to make it to... You can't make a film about David Bowie without having an Boeing music, and I think it's going to work. It's just such a strange thing, but then I was like, Yeah, well, I wanna tell the story, it's like, that's not your story to tell. The early... Don't want you to do it. So why do you think this is what I do at... I never understood that.


0:14:28.2 S2: Well, I wonder how much this is... How much longer this type of thing is going to play out as some... We've always done this type of thing, but to a greater extent because of social media, you see, remember the... It was a Twitter thread a while ago, I don't know, covid has completely mess with any sense of time I have in my head, where it was the two people that met on the plane, and we were in the rotation a week, living entire interaction. And at first you're like, Oh my God, that's so cute. Oh, they're totally reform, and then you start and you're like, Oh wait, and then you're like, Wait a minute, and then we are all to certain extent, public figures, right, so we're out of signing. Right, you have a really bad day, you trip going down the escalator, whatever it may be, talking about the area that becomes Foner. And you can make the argument, Well, it happens in public. Blah, blah, blah. But then you also have to think about the fact that, Well, who does it impact? It's almost like the chick tax, where the whole joke of the tiktok is, Oh yeah, this is the crack head in my neighborhood, and it is somebody who is obviously bad addiction, obviously in the middle of some bad shit.


0:15:53.9 S1: AICHI talks about drug addicts in their communities and it's supposed to be a joke. They do, they do all Honduran


0:16:06.0 S2: As a society, we have to figure out where is that public private doesn't need to be for mass consumption line, and I think it's harder now, maybe than it used to be because of social media and things like that, it's much easier to get it out there before I would tell you and you and you, and now I can just tell everybody. Right.


0:16:31.3 S1: 'cause everybody's got a book deal for the unauthorized biography, they can just go on to talking to you... Easiest


0:16:40.3 S2: Was my chat topic for today, and that is to his agony, a South bits I've ever seen my life, so again, look at this outfit, it's so bad. It is to go...


0:16:51.6 S1: When you say go fuck yourself. Yes, I love to him. Okay, I have to find that. 'cause I've never heard of that.


0:17:00.1 S2: Okay, so we should probably get to the point of the whole potential folkso


0:17:10.1 S1: For something completely different. Yeah.


0:17:11.9 S2: No, for something you actually related, we invite you guys to reach out with your question about relationships, friendships, cruise ships, whatever kind of ships you need help with, including fictional ships. I am too. So yeah, we'll give advice on it all... I just been... By the way, it is, so


0:17:34.9 S1: It's like a jacket where pieces have been in out on top of a dress where pieces have been cut out, and it's a back with the jacket on, but the jacket office even worked.


0:17:47.0 S2: Okay, anyway, sorry, I'm a US back to the ranch. We're gonna do a letter coming, please, you all send in your letters, you can send them in and on our sleep or our website, you can also send them to us in DNS and social media, all the good. So we would love to hear from you until we do, we're gonna keep stealing from other people, but we credit... Alright, so today's letter comes from love letters, and it says... My husband and I have been married a long time. We are approaching a new phase of life where our kids are moving out Yoruba, our kids are moving out, I mean, they may move back in because we can't predict anything in life anymore, but we are experiencing... And to kind of freedom. I love my husband and we have a great relationship. One of the most important things to me is the feeling that you really knows and understands me, that security is my rock, I love how thinks of me, and we'll send me text during the day or pick up dinner on the way home when he knows we're both too tired to cook, or a million other things that we've built over the past decades of being together, but we went into the pandemic with teenagers who still relied on us for everything.


0:19:03.0 S2: As we come out of covid, they are independent adults about to leave for college, it is such a drastic change, but I feel the empty nest face almost snuck up on me, and I'm not prepared being a mom with everything. And that is changing. I want to go out and try new things, meet new people, and make some non-parent friends, find a new hobby. My husband does not. The thought exhaust, some, I want to do this together, but he isn't willing, I don't want to change who he is, but fell a little compromise would go along way. Do you have any suggestions of how I can approach this with him so it understands how much this means to me, I want to grow closer together, and if I do this without him, I fear we will just grow apart, signed. Empty testing. Well, first off, huge. Let's say you canals.


0:20:04.5 S1: That sounds hard. I mean, I am not a parent, and so the emptiness thing is not something that I have any particular insight into and specificity, but I do feel like we can all relate to being part of a relationship, and then some external circumstance to that relationship changes and then the context for your relationship has changed, and I think that that can be a really destabilizing feeling for people, but also depending on how you are oriented toward change, like a really exciting one, and it sounds like this letter writer is in the exciting camp, and her husband is in the scary and stabilizing camp, and that's like a mindset issue, partly it's... Partly it's maybe she's an extrovert and he's an introvert, or she is more excited about newness and change that he is, but I also think he clearly is not in a place where he's ready to see it as exciting. And so when she says like, I don't wanna change who he is as a person, it's like, Well, you do actually... And that's not a bad thing, like you want to change his mind set around change, and that's like... Sometimes you can do it and sometimes you can't, but I do think it's super important to acknowledge what you actually want, it's Pat to say like, I don't wanna change who he is as a person, I just wish we could compromise on these seven things and he would do them all differently, and I'm like, it's not bad to say that...


0:21:31.2 S1: Listen, I don't think it's bad to say that you wish someone would change as long as you acknowledge that you can't make them... That's not... I feel like people treat that like a cardinal sin of relationships, admitting that someone does things that you wish they wouldn't do, but she obviously does want Him to change and until she acknowledges that, I think it's gonna be hard to have a conversation about it, which is obviously, what they need to do, I'll be my own broken record and be like, They need to sit down and have a conversation where she says, these are the reasons I feel really excited about meeting new people, about getting new hobbies, etcetera. When I think about that, it makes me feel expansive, capacious, excited. How does it make you feel? And then when he says, it makes me feel like I don't have any energy for it, it's so much work instead enough, then they can actually start breaking down those feelings and talking about what things she can do without him, what things he might wanna do that are... About making new friends, maybe that aren't quite as extroverted or social, but...


0:22:34.7 S1: Yeah, until they have a conversation about it in both of them admit what they actually want, it seems like you're just kinda swimming in the dark. Yeah, I also wonder how he feels about her going out and doing something without him, if that's like the whole thing about it'll make us grow apart is an interesting thing to say. If you're going out to dinner with friends, or if you're going to a movie with a movie club or something like that, why would that pull you apart in a... So there was some interesting things in there that makes me feel like she has approached this, and then the whole line about him saying it makes him feel exhausted, that's a very extreme reaction to just saying, Hey, let's go find some cool things to... Do you know what I mean? So there's a lot other... I feel like there's stuff between the lines here that we're not getting totally...


0:23:25.0 S2: My life is trying to communicate... We through that. Can you see the door? And so I'm trying to listen and I... Okay, I'm so sorry. Norberto? Yeah. Alright, I'm a little confused. And it on the clotting brain that's in the midst of writing right now, so she wants to do new things and he doesn't necessarily feel comfortable doing that. Is that the general idea? It... That's what I'm getting for the... The vibe I'm getting from it is that she is like trying to panic Phil, right. She's so used to having the kids in... Megan, you've got two kids. So especially at three and five, you've gotta be there for everything, mine are older, but it's still like I thought it would slow down, but it doesn't... There is so much activity that happens when you have kids and everything is centered around that, so all of a sudden not have that... I think she is a panic feeling time.


0:24:38.1 S1: So she doesn't... Handler feelings.


0:24:41.6 S2: I totally identify with that. So that's the vibe I'm getting from a nagaiah. My parents are actually kind of in this new realm of life where they're gonna move out here to Colorado, and they live in New York right now, but they're gonna move out here and be a family and stuff, but I remember when... I'm the youngest only, not only child, only girl. I have two older brothers, but I remember when, when my brothers left, they left at the same time, and then I was left, and I remember the transition of my mom clinging on to me as tightly as she could, and when I left, it was traumatizing to her 'cause all she was to stay at home mom, that's what she did. And so when I went to college, she was absolutely traumatized and my parents had to... I remember my mom talking to me about it, they kinda had to develop this new relationship because you kind of focus your relationship around your kids and raising them, and then once we all left, they had to learn each other again, they had to learn who they were, they had to kind of go about finding new things, they joined new clubs and went about it that way, and I think it's almost...


0:26:07.3 S2: You can't necessarily pressure someone, your partner, just because everyone kind of deals with everything in their own aspects, but rowing, that's how you say.


0:26:20.8 S1: Her saying...


0:26:22.5 S2: This is why we ask it... I major announce, Megan, line, you said you kinda just have to re-introduce yourself and let everyone go at their own pace, and then hopefully you can kind of find each other again, and I'm sure that's what's gonna happen with me and my wife or my kids, get older, 'cause at this point, everything I ever... You're saying everything is so focused and centered around your kids at 7 o'clock rolls around and the kids are in dead and I'm like, Oh my God. Yeah, hi, how are you? Italy don't know. And so now I could totally relate to that, and my kids are still really going, but I can relate to that, almost losing your identity. And so trying to find it again and find it within your partner, I think it just takes time and a little understanding. Yeah.


0:27:22.8 S1: I love that. She's excited to try new things. I'm concerned that he isn't a... Iolanthe.


0:27:31.1 S2: I have a hero. Okay, so number one, I agree we need more information, but beyond the just introvert extrovert thing, I think some people get very... And the change... You get overwhelmed. I always think of it almost like, Okay, my youngest is 13 his room. Oh my God. Number one, smells weird. Number two is such a wreck all of the time, and I come to go clean it and it is so overwhelming, and it was worse when he was younger, so overwhelming, because it's like, where do you start? It's like starting a book, it's like all of a sudden you were completely awhile... You know, if I look at you, it's as 300 pages. A month and a half. Make it happen, right? You would melt down. You had belt out. So I wonder how much of that is an impact here, it's not wanting to do things, but just that overall idea of is a complete change in things. So that's number one, number two. I wonder about like work from home or work close to home in a big community, now I'm outside of DC, my husband come, he leaves our house at the ungodly hour, 5-30 in the morning, get to work every day, and that's to avoid as much commute traffic as possible.


0:28:56.6 S2: So that happens and he gets home, it was worse when the kids were younger, like Here's our Megan, because I've worked from home almost our entire marriage, so he comes home and I'm like, No, no, no, no, guys like a... It's a little, I'm overwhelming, period, but don't leave me with little humans that don't really talk and it's a lot, so that too could be an issue with it where maybe... And especially, she's trying to avoid feeling her feelings, which I totally get by doing as much things as possible and having every idea that there may be to fill that time, that's all he's hearing is that it... I was her best friend, and she came to me with this. My recommendation would be honest to God, take this letter to him, and it's such a lovely letter


0:30:01.2 S1: That it is a meadow


0:30:03.2 S2: Much love there is still in this relationship, you can feel the fact that she is so nervous and weird it out. He's also nervous and were out and she gets that, but yeah, she's asking for him to change it, he is very uncomfortable with that, so number one, my recommendation would be to take this letter to him, number two part, because I love things that are in steps is to do something small at first, it doesn't have to be the whole book the first day, right. So figure out what that small thing is that he enjoys, that you can do... Let's say he likes to go play shuffle board at the local Debar. Alright. Say, Hey, let's make Tuesday night shuffle board and beer night, right. Making about something that he enjoys, so that you guys get into that practice of that number one at... Or number two, and my number three piece of advice is not for her, but for all the other married people or people in relationships with this and especially to that kid, it is so easy for your entire marriage to then circle around those kids because they take so much care and so much attention and so much effort and so much time.


0:31:27.7 S2: We love them, but yes, it's a lot that... I am a huge fan of standing weekly dates or monthly dates, or when you can get to it, even if it's just in the house, like we have done through covid a ton of movie nights, we just did one the other night where we kicked the kids to the basement or the room and said, Go away, we were watching this movie movie was horrible, I don't recommend power of dogs, but


0:31:52.4 S1: I was curious about that one...


0:31:53.9 S2: You know what, I think I'm too old, too tired and too done to spend two hours for somebody who's just an awful person. Even if they're fictional. So that's just kind of where I am in my journey. If you like that, you'll probably love it, 'cause the acting was wonderful, but don't wait until you were a complete empty nester, try and build even just small things that you do together so that you still keep that coupled together in...


0:32:26.6 S1: Yeah, that's really interesting that one of the things that I was wondering was, since you're talking about there is we have to acknowledge there's a difference between what motherhood means on what fatherhood means in society, the pressure is different on those two roles, and one of the things that I'm wondering about the letter writer, is she scared because she feels like when they had the kids and that was of the magnet that held them together, they had to be together, they had to do things together because these kids needed them and... Is she actually worried that she's worried about not having this role anymore, but I wonder also if she's worried that once those kids aren't there to hold them together, if she goes off and is making new friends and doing things, and he's going off and making new friends and doing things and they're not together, is he insecure that their relationship will fall apart once they don't have that center of the kids, and if she is... That is understandable to me, but I also feel like it's great to make friends that aren't mutual friends, mutual friends are great too, but one of the things that I've enjoyed most in the last couple of years is like my girlfriend has a totally different friend group than me, and so slowly meeting her friends and learning like, Oh, tell me about her when she was 15 and...


0:33:36.6 S1: Or like all those things. That's really fun, but then making new friends together, sometimes you don't lie with the same people, and so we've met people, and she's really like them, and I've been like, Great, cool. Hang out with them, I'll be home. Or vice versa.


0:33:49.6 S2: And so that's... Because you like four people.


0:33:52.8 S1: That's correct. One of them, I'm claiming that victory. What are you talking about? I am the most social person on advert in your life. No, but yeah, I think it's like... It doesn't have to be scary to make your own friends and do things that... In fact, I think it's like if you're used to having kids to talk about, if you do everything together, you don't have anything to talk about, whereas if if you go off and start a new hobby, start whittling and your husband is like, cool, I'm gonna start playing some massive multiplayer online game. At home, and I talk to people through my headset, then when you get home after your individual things, you're like, Hey, what's up would you do today? And you can actually talk about the things that you did. You can ask each other questions. So I think it's awesome to have things that aren't all the same, otherwise it's like your BFF forever and do everything together, but don't have the individual personalities that make it hot to be a couple, like you don't wanna date your sister, I mean, you wanna date my sister, she's great, but she just...


0:34:59.2 S1: Not that different. Here you go, say...


0:35:10.4 S2: What were you gonna say? I thought you were gonna say something. I was gonna say something and then I completely forgot to. That's cool. It was my wife and I. In order to do something that connects each other, we do things like Hunter... Have you guys heard of that? I've wanted to play that.


0:35:28.9 S1: It looks so fun.


0:35:30.3 S2: What is it? It's a subscription box basically, and they send you... Every six months, they have a new mystery that you have to solve, and they send you clues every month, and you have to figure out the clue in that box, and every month, and then at the end, you figure out what the mysteries... That sounds really good. It's a lot of fun and we have a little bit of a backlog just 'cause we move to new powers and things got a little crazy, but... It's one of our favorite things to do. We absolutely love it. And just like, you could always plan for game nights on coronet, 'cause I know sometimes you can get into the swing of like, Oh, what show were we're gonna watch tonight on the kids are per whatever. But you could be like, tonight, it's a puzzle. Might get ready. I just do little things here and there, and I totally agree with the going off on your own too, because if you're not doing stuff for yourself, then you're actually hurting everybody around you, 'cause you made that self-time, so I have 100% agree that you need to do things by yourself as well.


0:36:47.0 S1: Yeah, yeah. Yep, definitely. And I think one of the things that would be really fun if you're like, you know, when you're dating someone, you do the getting to know you thing, and there's a certain point in a relationship where obviously you're still learning about each other, but you're learning through experience rather than a self-description, you know, you go on a date and you're like, What's your favorite color, what's your sign, what's your... Whatever people do on dates, but now you're like 20 years away from dating, you've both changed so much, it would be so fun to re-date like you could go out on a first date and be like, Okay, let's pretend we're just meeting for the first time, and I got the ways that you would describe yourselves, the things that you value that you would connect on are actually different than the ones when you first started dating, and that could be a way to sort of make a new connection and re-re-integrate as a couple. Based on how to learn the rate.


0:37:42.9 S2: I love that. I'm actually gonna steal that idea, so... Yeah, we're gonna be 22 years this year. And it's funny 'cause I always like to think in my head, I haven't changed at all...


0:37:56.4 S1: I hope you have a very... What I...


0:37:59.7 S2: Yeah, I haven't changed at all. It's all him, he's the one that's different in the primary, but you look at it and you're like, No, things change, you grow, you learn as a person, you do all sorts of things, it's just idiotic to think that you wouldn't have in... God, I'd really be Patrick, quite frankly, of the person who has no personal growth in two decades, so I actually love that idea. That would be really bad. I mean, it sounds very touchy-feely, so both my husband, I are already going like this, but it... Shit doesn't have to be at this idea, I think it could be like a touchy-feely as you wanted to make it one of the things...


0:38:40.0 S1: Okay, so I look


0:38:41.2 S2: At it is role playing, so that have started, but also it could be Like it could be taking BuzzFeed quizzes together


0:38:49.3 S1: Like... Okay, so the other day to me, and so I'm still... For anyone who's not watching, I'm still sitting on the floor in a very call Department in New York as my lovely part... I recovered from surgery. And so we've been doing a lot of things that are like, Let's take this BuzzFeed quiz. Let's do this thing. 'cause you're just lying around all day. And so the other day, we took some buzzy quiz that's like, Tell us how you rate these 65 cases, and we'll tell you the date you'll get married. Obviously, there's no touchy-feely, there's no meaning behind it, it's totally random. So we independently took the quiz, and we both found that we're gonna get married on December 27th of this year, now.


0:39:28.6 S2: Keeper, no pressure in rubber of us have any interest in getting married, period much less to each other, and so... But we both got this from BuzzFeed, so obviously it's gonna happen like BuzzFeed knows all, and so I put it in our... We have a shared Dolphy. God, I put in our call book in my head, I know rations up friends to lovers roe right here. Yeah, so


0:39:53.8 S1: Something is gonna happen in our lives that will make us getting married on December 27th... Necessary or meaningful in some way. And I will look back at this moment and be like, My God, our cake rating was the fat in our lives, but it's just like a fun way, I think, to look at like, Oh, what did you think of take number seven or even if the fan doesn't matter, it's all about expressing yourself and your feelings and your likes and your opinions to someone else so that they can know you more deeply in the way that you are right now, so I think for you are... It doesn't have to be super touchy-feely, it could be like take on those were speed quizzes or do any of the pick and am I the asshole letter and both answer it, write it down, and then compare... I don't think it has to be... First days where you're like... And then my mother died at age 70, and I've never been the same. It can be like, We're getting tacos. What's your favorite Margarita flavor and then that reminds you of a story and you tell us so I can just totally stuff.


0:40:53.2 S2: I like that. I also wanna be in to read a principal over marriage of convenience that is also gonna get super placement in viceroyalty.


0:41:07.1 S1: Well, I'll say it on Twitter and because it's about myself, it won't be exclusive, and then they can partner with me if they'd like to...


0:41:14.7 S2: I'll exploit you baby.


0:41:17.9 S1: I will explain myself. Thank you. Already find, hopefully, they can sit down and have a chat about their new life together and come to some sort of agreement, 'cause it sounds like they have a really great base, and I think you're right, Rani think there is a bit of hesitation to shake the boat too much, she's like, we've got this great thing. If I push too hard or if I go too far, I could unravel it in...


0:41:43.5 S2: I think it's change. Change is weird, even when you think you're embracing it either


0:41:49.0 S1: Back... We could just be that he's like, Look, they've been... This house has been so noisy for 20 years, I'm just looking forward to some quiet yet that could be... This is gonna be as a response right there, you know what I mean? Like more stuff now. And it's the middle of a pandemic, I don't really understand that making a whole new set of friends sounds really exhausting, if you're like, Cool, we can't breathe the same air to be within six feet of each other, so let's go fly model airplanes on a windy beach, and yell at each other. The options are limited, and I do think that sounds exhausting in a way that maybe it wouldn't if it weren't in the middle of a pandemic, a point... Sure. Goodness. Well, that was awesome. Hopefully, emptiness to it, we'll find which is looking for... But I wanted to move into the chat topic 'cause we're even chatty today, this is good, this is... We have... That means kind of looking this like What are you guys doing it? But this is what we do, this is how we go. Finger guns. So today's chat, it's because arise, you Abraham, I...


0:42:57.1 S1: The whole post that went viral a little bit ago, and I had to try to condense this down for you guys, so basically, there was a woman who was in trouble with her sister or with her whole family, because she ruined something called an apology dinner, and there was a whole thing about like, what the heck is an apology dinner? And so I was like, You must not be from the Midwest. So I wanted to ask are if that is a thing in the Midwest, before I go for the never heard of the AIM from the passive aggressive part of the Midwest.


0:43:25.7 S2: You would mess up. We would talk about you for the rest of your life, but we would never acknowledge it.


0:43:32.3 S1: Or... So the mother of this woman does something to her sister, and Salter does something that is... They get into a fight, and the mom's like, I will make an apology there, which is the thing... Apparently in the same part of the world. And then she doesn't do it. She tells her other daughter to do it, she's like, I can't be bothered, I'm gonna go write my apology speech, you do all the cooking. You make all the arrangements. And so, dutiful daughter does and has the wrong food or the wrong time or something like that, and it pisses off her sister and she's like, Why did you do this? This was Mom, I'm supposed to do this, and you just say a whole thing, and I was like, This is the story, just thing I've ever heard. But what is the best way? How do you guys... When you screw up, apologize, apology dinner. Do you cook a nice meal to you.


0:44:20.2 S2: Why are you even thinking that I Messmer one in the rear cassettes, I might have a dream where I mess up, I get the hardest thing about apologizing, especially if it's like, you know, you were in the raw... Right. I think there are times when you mess up and you don't mean to... And you apologize, right. I think those are... Personally, I find those easier to do, I think sometimes when you do something, 'cause you're a head person and you realize you know what, that was not the best, I think those are hard to have. Yeah, I think those are more personally difficult because it's not just, I'm not stupid and I purposefully did something here, and I think the gut reaction in those situations, just try and justify... I did that because of this, but I realized it was wrong. But if you had done that, I wouldn't have done this. And so I think that's... To me, I think whether it's something you must do or something you didn't mean to do or something you do on purpose, the biggest part of an apology is not trying to raise it, is just to simply be sincere and say, I am sorry, I shouldn't have done that or I didn't...


0:45:56.6 S2: Wasn't my intention to do this to you, whatever it may be, but to not try and rationalize it, and another thing is, I think I grew up in a household where the adults did not apologize to the kid... Whatever. Right, and obviously the adults mess up one time, you do, so that's been a big thing in our house is... Sometimes I have a quick temper. And so being able to turn around to my kids and say, I'm sorry that that was your fault, I should hit on that, but to be able to model that behavior with my kids, I think is important too. Even though I still have apologize, I don't know anybody who doesn't. So that would be my advice on apologizing...


0:46:56.5 S1: I love that, especially with social media, people say things, especially on Twitter, they'll say something and people will go, Oh my gosh, I can't believe you said that. That was horrible, especially when it's like something offensive, and you get those two types of apologies, one is the, Oh my gosh, thank you for calling me out on that, I'm learning, whatever. And then you get the, Well, I'm sorry, you were offended by what I said, which is not an apology. Great, so yeah, so I feel like we need apology lessons in this age of social media because people really to apologize and clicking a better... Maybe, I don't know, but... Yeah, I think the apology dinner is funny because it's a... What would you call it? A formalized response, like when I was in fourth grade, my wonderful teacher had a big post around the wall that said choices equal consequences, and in this case, in this family or in the area, which I've also never heard of the apology dinner thing, it's like if you mess up then what has already been decided is that an apology dinner will make it... Okay, it's almost like serving a certain prison sentence and then the thing will be stricken from your record or something, and it's interesting 'cause it seems like that is a thing that all the parties have to agree.


0:48:15.6 S1: Will make it better. So the person who offended the person who was a upset, the person, all the people involved have to already agree that if you do the apology dinner, then everything is probably okay, or at least on the way to being okay, but to me that's like... At least on a surface level. Okay, 'cause I see a one... How many times, whatever it is, comes up again, that... Right, it's like paying someone when you offend... Putting a dollar in the swear jar. You're like, If gonna do a thing, I know this will be the consequence, I'm willing to pay it so I can do the thing anyway, and I think for me, that kind of wrote one-size-fits-all apology would be meaningless if that's why someone was doing it, and so I think to me, the most important thing about an apology as both as someone who's apologizing and someone being apologized too, is that it's personal and specific both to me or the other person, but also to the thing that happened, so... Sure, just saying, I'm sorry, is a good start, but I think anything that isn't kind of taking into account specifically how that thing hurt this specific person, to me doesn't really feel very genuine, 'cause it feels like you believe that what you've done is Capital Double you wrong.


0:49:29.5 S1: Like in a niche in sensor, you know like, No, there are wrong things that can happen, and it's like there aren't maybe moral absolutes, there's the understanding that this thing that you did hurt a specific person in a specific way, so why would you give them a one-size fits all apology, when actually, if what you're trying to do is repair damage to your relationship, you have to do an apology that suits the wrong and he specifically, which would just look different for every person. Yeats. Yeah, it's never fun to have to apologize, I think that we write a lot of traveling scenes in our books is a lot of... There's the dark moment, and then you have the... Come to Jesus moment like, Oh, I messed up, I gotta fix it. You know what I mean? And can you imagine your character just having a dinner, inviting all of your family and friends to watch me read a speech with your apology, I think that would be... So I don't know, I dare someone to write it though a man, Jerry.


0:50:39.8 S2: I am honestly... Apologizing is a hard thing that I've learned to deal with. I'm an Enneagram three. I don't know if you guys do any a gram or whatever, but I am like... The three knows everything. So apologies, my wife had to fix and she is so in six is someone like their best present, you can get them as a ring camera, so I... I... She's still scan ways. I've learned over time, especially within our relationship and then within being an author and owning your own business, is that really what it comes down to is sucking up your pride, putting it to the side and understanding what the person is saying to you, and so... Even as an author, I have done some things very few, but I've written something that has maybe triggered somebody or said something casually on a live feed that might have offended somebody, and I will get messages from those people and I've seen in different groups and stuff, people are can you believe this person wrote me this and blah, blah, blah, and they're going off about it, and I'm like, Stop for a second, put yourself in their shoes and understand why that this person is triggered this way, and so I got one a little while back, and I can't remember what they said, but it was very...


0:52:27.8 S2: I read it and immediate... The defense went out and I was like, How dare... And I was like, Hold on, no, there's a reason why they sent this and they were hurt by it, somehow... I need to sit back and be like, I'm so sorry. I will try better next time, and that's what I do, I will do better. And I think that's all we can really ask from people in an apology dinner, man, if I... Onam wife and she rolled out an apology dinner, I was... I think you... That one, but I wouldn't necessarily require it, with me and her, it's just a simple hug and I'm sorry, and then we can move on, but I really think it comes down to setting that pristine because everybody just wants to be... Right, especially in today's world of so many conflicting opinions, everyone wants to be right about something, and so I think it's just setting that pride aside and just doing a very genuine apology.


0:53:28.2 S1: Yeah, I was thinking about love languages, we talked about level languages sometime last year, and if your log language with your partner or partners is to do things for them, like dinners or bringing flowers or whatever it is, or watching movie together, whatever... If that's part of your apology and it's a very personal thing, I think that's great. The idea of gathering your entire immediate family together, it's such a weird concept, it reminds me of like... I don't know if you remember a game with thrones, like shame, the shame scene, were all the villagers come on, they're like shape. That's what it reminds me of. It's a versatile, public humiliation is... I see


0:54:05.5 S2: That, but I wanna say this, although I think it sounds... Not for me, I'll put it that way. Is I get the sort of standard operating procedure clears of it. Alright, this is when my love's organization loves Ben love spreadsheets loves being a Virgo comes in happy. I like knowing if step A happens, you know you've got your little choice, did you do this? Go, that's... Why did you do this? Go this way. So I do appreciate the standard operating procedure of it and not leaving somebody wondering What is my clear response, right. This is coming from somebody who still does not understand the roles of when I am supposed to bring a housewarming gift to somebody, if I go to their house for drinks, I am still very confused by this, so I appreciate any boat somebody's house and I'm really stressed out bringing, gonna bring Girl Scout cookies to a testing that can be consumed.


0:55:16.4 S1: That's


0:55:16.6 S2: Always... There you go. Okay, alright, so I did well. Alright. Yes. Anyway, thank you for it. I appreciate that.


0:55:24.0 S1: I know in that.


0:55:25.3 S2: But what happens is it loses the sincerity factor when it becomes done, because that's the thing to do, not because I am sincerely sorry for what happened and I want to show this to you, I... Can you have an apology dinner and do that? Yes, but again, it is your motivation behind what you're doing, if I'm only having the dinner, because I have to have the dinner, because that step six and me get my mom to stop yelling at me... Pasta doesn't do you a whole lot of good.


0:56:02.2 S1: Do you think an apology dinner is the same as any other dinner in terms of the conversation, or do you think the whole dinner is just spent in watching the person apologize and then the apology be received, 'cause I feel like I would be a retention in... And go to the bathroom.


0:56:18.0 S2: If I remember correctly, from this letter and Zeo... Correct me, it was like an event. It's almost like a formalized program of what is supposed to happen, how the apology was to be made, how the apology was to be accepted, and to go from there.


0:56:40.4 S1: And whatever happened, it wasn't the ideal circumstances for the sister to receive the mom's apology because mom didn't prepare the dinner, right? It was very thereafter, lire-Gulati on a very...


0:56:54.8 S2: A lot of rules and regulations with it.


0:56:58.0 S1: It was definitely like, everyone here is an asshole, except for the woman who prepared the meal, because like mom was an asshole. The sister was that it was just like, You guys, I just apologize Beaufort


0:57:11.4 S2: All the store. Yeah, I do write an apology dinner in my next book.


0:57:16.4 S1: Honestly, you do it.


0:57:19.1 S2: We were to win a heron over... Right, yes. I always think that a situation like that would be the most fun anthology or something.


0:57:29.4 S1: Could you start off the tinting Jenner


0:57:33.2 S2: And then everybody breaks off and... 'cause that's the opening. It's like, Oh my God, what was that?


0:57:40.0 S1: That would be so fun for everyone here, they're the one being apologized to or something...


0:57:45.8 S2: I like that. That's like, Well, I get the Christian


0:57:49.1 S1: That... Oh my gosh, yeah. Maybe it turns it to a locked room mystery, the apology dinner, someone gets poisoned, and then they have to figure out who done it.


0:57:57.7 S2: And then you find out it was the subscription box all alone. So


0:58:01.8 S1: We came full circle. As a caterer, I get all your weddings and you want...


0:58:09.3 S2: Nobody chipped. Yeah, sheet, faster, small. Right.


0:58:17.0 S1: Well, I feel like we've exhausted this topic for the moment... I'm sorry, I'm sorry for bringing this topic... No, I'm apologizing for...


0:58:29.1 S2: Well, I'll take my one when I get back to Philadelphia, but I thought that was really fun, and I liked the way our topics in inter-wove, 'cause it was really kind of all about different people having different expectations and sometimes that going awry, and I was into it...


0:58:46.6 S1: Anyway, that was amazing. Megan, thank you so much for joining us today. It was great to have you. Do you wanna remind everyone, where can we find you on social media, do you have a book that you'd like to direct people towards... All that stuff.


0:58:59.9 S2: Yeah, so I have two books kind of floating about right now, put me in detention, which is a teacher... Romance is


0:59:10.2 S1: Popular in Tudor.


0:59:14.1 S2: Yeah, yeah. Has a piercing that seems to be talked about often, an egg plant piercing, if you know what I mean, entablature. So that one's doing great and then not see cute, it's also one of my releases, which is kind of like a modern day twist some pretty woman minus the hooker part. They absolutely love that one, and then the reunion comes out in February, in the reunion, you guys... It has six point of views in it as...


0:59:54.8 S1: Oh.


0:59:55.8 S2: I love it. They're all intertwined 'cause it's three siblings and then their love interest, and all of their stories are meshed together, if you do the Family Stone, you definitely... You would definitely this bottom that's onsite to ask a writer question, how stressful was it to inter-mesh all of that, and I would assume that since you did that, that you are a later and not a cancer... Don't hate me, I'm a cancer. Okay, how did you even do that? That means my whole head explode, I'm so stressed right now. It's so weird because I really black out, I black out when I write, and so when I'm writing someone's point of view, immediately I'm like, Okay, Ford is the older brother, he's the uptight one, but this guy very formal, and so I'm writing him... I'm kind of in this mindset of how a formal person would speak and then Cooper is more of the goof, have the middle child. He's the screw up. So he kinda had it, who gives a crap attitude, and then the younger sister is the freelance free girl, kind of doing whatever she wants to do, and so whenever you're...


1:01:15.6 S2: I guess just whenever I'm in that point of view, I remember what character I'm writing and I just go for it. But honestly, I wrote this book in three weeks and with iMovie is... And my agent was like, how... I honestly, I would wake up at five and I would write it from five to seven, and it would be... I'd get 3000 words done and I would be in the complete dark because it was last year, it was last January that I was writing it. And so it's still dark out in the morning at A... And my wife would walk out, I came to the living room, 'cause I parked my spot in the living room, and there's no lights on, it's the computer screen, I have my headphones on and I'm like, This is like... What do you do? Is I found my spot. Don't judge me. So I exacerbate matching Long John gamezone. Carlists awesome. Yeah, but I talk a lot to readers on Instagram, so if people want to talk on Instagram, I'm Megan Quin book. So that's great. And


1:02:41.1 S1: You said for periods that come out are


1:02:44.0 S2: 22nd and like You guys, this cover


1:02:46.6 S1: Looking at a colleague, you can see this cover.


1:02:55.0 S2: It's published with month, so I'm super, super excited.


1:02:59.9 S1: And


1:03:00.3 S2: It looks like it weighs about 25 pounds on...


1:03:03.1 S1: You were getting your


1:03:05.8 S2: 60 PI got this in and I was like, This is not what it's supposed to look like, this is the arc. But it's gonna have a pretty matching back, but when I got this, I was like, Oh, and they're like, Oh, I mail them however you want, I'm like, Yeah, that's not a season. You shouldn't do this, but it would kill the hell out of the spider, it is a great... I love it. So hopefully, everyone out school too.


1:03:36.9 S1: Awesome, that sounds awesome. So everyone should go check it out and it will be out in February


1:03:41.8 S2: At Megan, thank you again so much for having us. That is all for this episode of


1:03:46.4 S1: Dear romance writer, we'll be back next week with another fabulous guest, author name Simon will be with us.


1:03:53.2 S2: And until that... Oh my God, yeah, I'm very excited. Am I saying that right now? You


1:03:58.3 S1: Manhole, until then, just remember those of your questions, we would love to answer them, you can go to Jerome reader dot com and fill out our anonymous form there to send in your questions, or you can hit us up on any of our social media platforms, so we cannot wait to offer you more dubious but well-intentioned advice from this trio of happily ever after enthusiasts. Thanks so much for watching, listening, so you can say I I... Thank you so much for subscribing to Dear romance writer. Remember to keep sending in those letters I demeanor dot com, we can't wait to tell you what to do.


1:04:46.2 S2: Your romance writer is part of the frolic Podcast Network. Find more podcasts you love, framed. Podcast.

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