EPISODE 22 
TRANSCRIPT

0:00:11.6 S1: Hey everyone, welcome to Dear romance writer, where three writers who always deliver happily ever after offer questionable advice for all of your relationship work and life problems, I'm Ron parish, I'm Zeo Axelrod, and I am a very fine... Have a great show for you this week. And you're super excited because we have the very luscious-ly locked Gabriel Miller with us, so if you were listening at least jump by YouTube, so you can see her super, super pretty hair, a beautiful area is a Canadian actress in addition to being a hair Model, T but to start off her career in 1993, she appeared in hundreds of television films and series episodes, alright, Gabriel, tell us where everybody is going to know you from and what you are working on now, I lay... First of all, thank you so much for having me. You guys are amazing. I had so much fun listening to your podcast. Yeah, so my name is Gabriel, and I am an actor. The thing that people probably recognize me most from is a show that I did in Canada for six years called Corner Gas, and then we went on to do an animated version and movie, which was really fun and...

 

0:01:32.3 S1: Yeah, right now I am getting through the pandemic and parenting and working on a project with a friend that I'm really excited about, but we're in the midst of trying to get a home for that, so I'll wait on... Cool. Giving it too much time, but when I'm ready, I wanna let you guys know because it's pretty exciting. Please do. Yeah, we will send all of the good times for that... Thank you.

 

0:01:57.1 S2: Here's the toes, girls. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's been a year. We're not... 2020 was like a year. The 2021 hasn't been too far behind, but I don't know, I'm excited because we're getting to the end of this year, and I'm cautiously optimistic for the next year to use, as I would yell, Don't Understand that we're already in Fall consider

 

0:02:21.1 S1: 2020 went crawled by in 2021, it was like January, and then all of a sudden we're in the fall and... I am not caught up. Yeah, yeah, Adam, it... Noye.

 

0:02:36.2 S2: It was like March 202 for a year, and then I was at A...

 

0:02:42.4 S1: And then we were like, Oh, good route, March, let go. As you said that you were parenting also, so do 12-00 kids. What do you have? Okay, I have a little boy named Toby, he's 14, he's my little boy, who's not a little anymore... Yeah, he's the best, and then I have lots of nice and nephews, and I consider myself an to all of my friends children as well, so I love that. That's that.

 

0:03:14.2 S2: It's always good to have a nice anti in the family, the area, the cool out. Yeah, it's me, my family. That's me, by the way. Just, Okay, well, let's dive into our letter 'cause it's a good one, and we really need our listeners to write in because you guys send us such amazing letters and we love hearing from you, so please do email us DMs, whatever you want, send a carrier pigeon, however you wanna reach us? We are all tiles. So this letter is from Jesse, and it's a dear romance writers. I'm in nearly 47-year-old woman who has always been very good with my own company, I'm an introvert who has rarely felt lonely, but that began to change after my divorce in late 2017, at first it was fine, but almost a year after getting on the apps I'd only had six days before guys and other life issues led to constant anxiety, so I took a break feeling it wasn't a good time to try and date, it's now been almost three years... Exactly. Since my last date and since the last time I had sex, I've been lonely a lot in 2021 and have thought about sex so much in the past three years, I've basically turned into a teenage boy in a ranchi 80s comic comedy.

 

0:04:23.4 S2: I love that, that you're not... I'd like to start trying to date, I would love to have sex, but I have several issues, not only do I not have much experience with dating until 2018, the only person I did, it was my ex-husband and I didn't date as a teen or in my 20s, but it's still very much a pandemic, and I'm also going through a month-long spell on intense depression and anxiety, again, I'm working through the mental health stuff with my therapist, but I'm worried, I'll never feel comfortable dating if I continue to feel this sewer. I also tried in 2018 to have a one-night stand, and while it didn't make me feel guilty or anything like that, I can't trust a stranger enough to let go and enjoy myself because I'm worried they might be dangerous, I don't have close friends nearby to ask for setups and my family is a no-go in that area. Can I date like this? If so, how do I do it without making me more depressed? Anxious. Any advice would be appreciated, I'm tired of doing everything including sex alone is a sign Jesse H Jesse.

 

0:05:26.8 S2: First of all, group hug

 

0:05:28.4 S1: Group has the process, how you are putting Jesse, I love you, but you were putting so much pressure on yourself right now, oh my gosh, I can feel it coming from the letter. And so I guess my first piece of advice would be basically to let out that breath, but like a romance heroin, it feels like you are holding without knowing, release the breath and yeah, I feel you as somebody who is also 47, there are a ton of changes going on even with your... With someone at this point in time in your life and in the pandemic, and in the fact that it sounds like you feel like you're supposed to be catching up on things and there's a certain way that you're supposed to be behaving and doing things in the dating world, and they may not be a great fit for you. And that's okay. So I think at a certain point in time, you kinda have to, if you can let go of the breath and think about what you like rather than what is expected for you to... Like at this point in time, when it comes to dating, when it comes to one night stands, when it comes to sex, period and being set up, and I know Ron's got great advice right now...

 

0:06:51.9 S1: I see. About about dating yourself? Well, I mean, not to not sound like a cliche myself, but yeah, I really identify with this letter as someone who also suffers from depression and anxiety and has also tried to date while in those modes. It was not possible for me. Yeah, it's hard, and it's also like... I think that the risk of something really cheesy, it's also a time when I just felt very not in my power, and dating when you feel not in your power, for me feels so pretty, it doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel exciting, it doesn't make me tilted to meet someone new or make a connection, what it makes me feel like is like I need to find someone who happens to know me better than I know myself because I'm not trusting myself in that moment, I don't think that's a good way to go about dating ever, and so if you're just in that period of depression and anxiety, it might not be a good time for you to date and then it's fine, and then the trick is like to find a way to be okay with that and be like, Alright, I'm just taking care of myself for a little while.

 

0:08:06.6 S1: I'm gonna mess up and get the fuzzy blankets and watch the movies or read the books that make me feel good and hibernate for a bit, and that is okay, because you're not giving up, you're just waiting till you cycle back into a place where you feel a little bit more in control and in your own power in a way that you're then gonna wanna go out and meet someone who's gonna be attracted to that version of you. Right. And I think that I have sat on the show before so many times that dating yourself is a great way to do that when you are not in a place where you can meet someone for whatever reason, and so maybe it's not like curl up in your bed with a book and have that just be the thing. Maybe you say, Okay, what is the book that just came out that I really wanna be? But usually, I would treat myself to buying it when it was like a hard cover, order it for yourself on the day that it comes, make yourself like a beautiful dinner and light some candles and sit there with your book and be present in that moment of giving yourself, this gift of time with yourself that you wouldn't ordinarily give you...

 

0:09:15.0 S1: And I sit with that and think about, I'm having a wonderful time right now, I'm doing something I enjoy, I'm eating something that I love, I'm having a glass of wine, or salt or whatever the thing is that you really like. And pay attention to how you feel in that moment when you're taking good care of yourself, because that is how you should feel on a good day, and if you don't feel that way with someone else, why are you even doing it? Like, it's not the right time. So yeah, I feel like sometimes the dating yourself isn't just about being good to yourself and putting yourself in places to meet other people, it's also about learning what you need to feel like something is going well, so that you can compare it to other dates once you start going on then again, and I was single for a really long time before meeting my current partner, and before I met her, I was like, I would go out on these dates with perfectly okay people, they didn't suck or anything, I don't have nightmare stories, but at the end of the day, halfway through, I was like, I would be having more fun right now by myself or with my friend or my sister or whoever, and then it's like...

 

0:10:26.6 S1: What's the point? You know?

 

0:10:28.1 S2: Yeah, yeah, there was something else that Jesse said about not knowing if somebody was dangerous, which to me seems like this, Okay, you want to get to know somebody before you jump into a romantic or sexual relationship with them, I think that might make Jesse more comfortable. So we've talked about this before, about joining groups that share your... About your interest, book clubs, pottery making, cooking classes, whatever it is, so that you meet people who you share these interests with, you struck up a conversation, might turn into a friendship, I might turn into more, but at least you have a pool of people that you can talk to you and get to know and see if they just spark there with them, 'cause sometimes with the dating apps, not that I've ever been on line, but you hear the stories, people put their best selves or their idealized self on those apps, the angled shots, the pictures of themselves and the things that are... They find most attractive, really think someone's gonna find attractive about them on those apps, you don't get necessarily the real person, but I think being in an interactive thing class with someone for six weeks or something, you get to know more of that person and you work through an app interview.

 

0:11:34.1 S2: So that my one.

 

0:11:35.3 S1: I love that because that's kind of shaping your whatever your dating experience is, what feels good to you? I am not a date, I've never dated. It doesn't really work for me. I also have anxiety and depression, I was thinking about this today, and when I was younger, I walked around in my life kind of like an open wound and having to put myself out there in positions that didn't make me actually feel comfortable, and I was thinking... I don't know that... I don't know that I'm any less sensitive now, but I take better care of myself, so having just gone through a divorce and the pandemic and all of that, I think being gentle with yourself and spending time kind of thinking about what your ideal situation would look like and what would make you feel most... I'm most comfortable, right? Yeah, and that might not be...

 

0:12:26.5 S2: Yeah, learning who you are without a partner too, because if you were in Italy and then you're not like... People change when they're in partners, everything changes, so... Yeah, like you guys said, just getting to know yourself, dating yourself, whatever you wanna call it, but being comfortable in your own skin before you let someone else in this

 

0:12:49.0 S1: Esme of them was beautiful. Time in my life has been the in-between, and the times that felt really, really devastatingly difficult in the beginning, like divorce and all of that, but then actually having the time to just re-figure out who I was then... Right, 'cause you're right, you're different after relationships and things change and you change, so... Yeah, well, and I would say also, I mean, Jesse says that she doesn't really have friends that she can have set her up on that family that consider up, that type of thing. So I almost wonder if instead of dating at this point in time, it might be easier to people or lactate word to be able to just get out there. And depending on where you're from, is like Ron and no are both... And Philly, I'm in the DC metro area, so we have a lot of stuff, but I grew up in the middle of nowhere and went to college in the middle of nowhere, lived in the middle of nowhere, and Auntie can say, Oh, go. Join a pottery class and there may not be that podcast available, and that's really hard when you're in that type of area, but if there are certain activities where you can, people...

 

0:14:14.1 S1: Whether it's a county fair app from a rural area, that was a... A big deal, that's what did... Whether it's stepping out and going to the county fair, whether it is a volunteer opportunity, whether it is going to the grocery store in person instead of Instacart on... I know it sounds horrible, but there are different opportunities and different levels of people that you can do to sort of at least start to put yourself out there, and that may be a nice in-between level between not seeing anyone and not hanging out with anybody and then you go to people in and then maybe you go to group friendships and things like that, and then maybe on top of that, you'll find somebody to date. Right.

 

0:15:03.4 S2: Start virtually, there are virtual as... If you're living an area where there aren't a lot of meet-ups, there are virtual clubs more and more every day.

 

0:15:11.8 S1: And so that... Yes, exactly. Is a great opportunity and Can you date like this, I think... Yes, you absolutely can. The question is, and I think since you're already in therapy, Jesse, it's great for you to sit, and I would hope that you're talking about this with your therapist as well, about what your wants and your needs and how to best meet them at this point in time, in your life, in your circumstances that you're in, but you need to allow yourself the opportunities and allow yourself permission not to feel so pressured, which is easier said than done, it's like telling somebody to relax, it's not helpful at all, but rather than us telling you that you need to tell yourself that you need to give yourself permission to sort of experience what you're gonna experience right now and know that it's okay, you don't have to date in a certain way, you don't have to find somebody in six months or it's over... And somebody who's also 47, turning for you didn't wear me out. But I'm telling you, I'm thinking about 50. So if that is sort of something that you feel, number one, you're not alone, but number two, again, that is a societal pressure, that time limits only you can put time on its on yourself.

 

0:16:36.3 S1: So I think that it eaten with yourself, and I apologize, I realize I may have mis-gender Jessie, I wasn't... I said she... And I don't know if it's her that wrote in Mahogany, he did. Oh, sorry. Okay. Yeah, I think the other thing I'll add is the piece about wanting to have sex, not by yourself, I think that what we've been talking about so far is the idea of you meeting someone, meeting people, using people connections to date people, and then the idea would be that you would have sex with whoever you were dating, there are other options though, that you could consider if you're interested... I totally understand not being super into one night stands, especially if you're someone who doesn't really feel relaxed with strangers, the one thing that you could think about is doing, like finding someone on the apps that you could have virtual sex with so that they wouldn't be in your space, you wouldn't have to feel threatened by them and a threatened with violence or you could disconnect whenever you want it, but you could try starting chat, sex with someone and move to sex on camera if you want to, or...

 

0:17:58.8 S1: If that doesn't really interest you, you could think about finding porn that is maybe something that you haven't tried before and seeing if you wanna delve into that so that it is still by yourself, but it's pushing boundaries in a way that maybe you're more used to having with a partner, of the things that I think is so common, especially for people who are socialized as women, is that we are not raised to think of having sex with ourselves as being real sex, because there's this idea that in order to enjoy sex, we need somebody else to bring it out of us, magically and magic paint give you an orgasm as if it's something that someone else is bestowing upon you, very godmother or something, when actually you can have incredibly satisfying sex with yourself, if what you're doing is finding outside ways to experiment with yourself and challenge yourself, because then it is not just the same old thing that you do before you fall asleep, right. But trying a new sex toy or watching a scene in porn or reading Sexy books, which I might know a person or two who writes those, entering through place yourself in the role of those characters and they'll imagine someone doing these things to you, and then the other option is like, this might not be for you if it's any stranger at all that you wouldn't feel comfortable with, but you might feel more comfortable with a sex worker, like someone whose job is completely to be about your pleasure, who you find through a reliable network, so you don't have to worry that they're going to rob you or do you violated that someone who is very comfortable having sex with strangers and can make you feel like they are not a stranger, if that's what you tell them you want.

 

0:20:02.7 S1: And maybe there are things that you'll discover watching porn or reading 60 books and you're like, I would really love to try this, but I actually don't know if I'm gonna like it, and so I wanna try it with someone who is... I know this is a one-off encounter, and maybe that would be something that you could look for if you have the money for it, and that is something that appeals to you. And I think that is a super valid way to explore any preferences or experiment that you might have, and you don't have to give anything in exchange, you can make it 100% about your pleasure, all you have to give us money, and you treat someone kindly, obviously. But you don't have to worry about performing for someone else or satisfies a cruel... And if the sex is more about the emotional connection, the intimacy, the intimacy that you get with somebody when you're in a relationship, which I think is kind of where I took... What Jesse was missing a little bit was that togetherness sensation rather than just looking for or DASS, which neither is wrong, but they're valid, but they're awesome.

 

0:21:14.4 S1: And I wish there was a great easy three-step plan for that, I love the three-step plan, but unfortunately that just that is part of taking that three-step plan of going outside people in data, hopefully finding someone. So I think Ron's advice that she gives is a great intermediary, but it may not fit that whole need that Jesse is seeking a... Tashi, wish there was an easy answer for finding intimacy in the world today, 'cause I think that is really hard instead, especially right now.

 

0:22:00.5 S2: But I think it's wonderful, and I'm so happy and proud of you, Jessie, for being in therapy because that is such an enormous step to take... And being that self-aware of... So I could go... So you really gotta be... Yeah. Well, hopefully we gave you something that you can use, so... I have some good advice.

 

0:22:19.2 S1: Tessier sharing, Jesse. I think that that's really beautiful when people are vulnerable and reach out, 'cause we are all in this together and everybody is facing their own private challenges, so it's nice to create and what you're doing right now, even by reaching out as creating a community. Right, yeah. Oh absolutely, it is. The virtual people in. So you were going there. Yes, thank you so much. That was an awesome letter, and thank you for sending it in, so I have a chat topic for us if we can Segway, this is inspired by an email from Reverend romance and also a couple of characters from one of my books, small change, so thanks for that. Let's talk about Texas. Let's talk for a year. Let's talk about tattoos. And this is something, not just the fact of them, but one of the things that I like, tattoos are something that have become more common in the recent years and also seem to be a big thing in romance novels, so I feel like usually most people have real preferences for... I love a tattooed risk a character or people who aren't into it, but tattoos are also like my book Small Change, Ginger is a tattoo artist and owns the tattoo shop in Philly, and she basically, her idea of tattoos is tattoos, ovas, you can choose.

 

0:23:55.7 S1: So the world that... That, thank you. Yeah, and there are lots of scars that we don't get to choose that just happened to us or that we're involved in, but a tattoo is something that is... For some people, it's just beautiful Dakota, and that's cool too, but for a lot of people, it's something that's really meaningful, a way to reclaim and mark your body in a way that you choose, and so... Especially after this letter talking about big things like a divorce and re-entering the dating pool, anything like that... Yeah, I would be so curious to hear all of your thoughts about this topic for yourself or infection.

 

0:24:38.1 S2: There's such a strong connotation, especially in romance novels, and I'm generalizing of course, 'cause there are exceptions, but where tattoos equals some sort of lifestyle or some sort of personality or some sort of... It's like a personality trait. Especially with me characters, it's like, Oh, I've got a tattoo, and there's just like the site to be a shorthand for Alpha Heathcote something... Yeah, which drives me... No, it's a little not... Yeah, because I do think that a lot of people get tattoos to tell the story of their life... Right, right. So like you said, Mark, special occasions or... I had a niece who was like soon she turned 18, she wanted to get a tattoo, she was telling us three years before I get a tattoo when I turned 18, and I was like, You know what I mean? And my dad was like, Why is she doing that to her body? And I'm like, Well, I've got for now. But it was like it was... His idea of a person with a tattoo was so set in this place... That was bad. In the boomer place.

 

0:25:39.3 S1: Right? Yeah, very much, very much. Well, it's self-expression. Right, and so it changes. And what's acceptable changes and what it means changes, and so like everything else, I think tattoos a lot of times, tell not just about us as individuals who get them, but also talk a lot about where we are as a society and what we find acceptable and what forms of expression, we allow... I hate to put it a loud sounds weird, but I don't know a better rate for it at this point in time, and you also... You look at the level of artistry that there is in tattoos now, I think that has changed as they have become more socially acceptable. There is a show... I'm sorry, I'm mad at them, the streaming channel that it's on right now, but... So I won't say it, but they have a really interesting concept, which is they have somebody who has attached to that they dislike intensely, and they go with their friend and their friend pick what the replacement cover-up tattoo is a... Oh, wow. It's actually a very interesting show, it's really fun, but it also... So they're talking about why the person gets the tax to what's the meaning behind it, and then what that is, it changes, and I think that happens to us sometimes too, it's not always attached to...

 

0:27:16.6 S1: There are things that I think happen to us in life or that we have... Or that we carry with us. And their meaning changes, right. As we grow older relationships following whatever it is, but one of the episodes that I watched, the tape that was being changed was the dude had gotten a matching tattoo with his husband, now ex-husband, so he was covering that up, so again, we have these things that are symbols, and they have deep meaning for us or they might just be on there 'cause we're farting around him, we said, You know what, SpongeBob ion gets them off or that to all the way across my back on the trip, Stan. We also make bad decisions, tattoo, you've never seen my background, you don't know... I remember being in next to no many, many years ago, I was like, I think in my early 20s, I'm at this lovely couple, and the young woman was, I think like 10 or 19, and she had a huge hurdle or tort is across the valley. And she was just tingling, I thought, Oh, Gatos changed. And I would have played a... Anyway, yeah, my tunnel is fine, but...

 

0:28:39.7 S1: Yeah, yeah. Well, and they come in and out of fashion. They're saying that the lower back caused rampant... Tristan.

 

0:28:49.5 S2: Yeah, they're coming back. The thing I think I really love, or I don't even know if it's a recent development, it feels recent, is tattoo artist who cover up scars, like server scars. I saw a beautiful photo the other day of a woman who had a mastectomy and she got this roses and it was just gorgeous, and it was like turning her trauma into beauty kind of thing, and I just think that's amazing. Amazing. Use of the art form.

 

0:29:13.2 S1: Yeah, that is really attractive to me, like using too as telling stories or things that are so personally, really, I relate and understand that. I also think that it's just beautiful, like it's ran... It's gorgeous, I don't have any... I don't... I change my mind so much about things that I was always scared that if I chose something that I might think, Oh, I didn't choose that. You know.

 

0:29:45.1 S2: Yeah, that was my issue. I want it one for years, and then I discovered micro tattoos though Elite doesn't have to be, they're just tiny, like I have... I can't really see it, but I have like three in alipore in Word for now. So like micro ones, the biggest one I have, I think is maybe four inches, it's just like an abstract dragon fly, so I was like, Oh, if I can get something tiny and that people won't see right away, then... Cool, I'll do that. So I have four of them now.

 

0:30:16.4 S1: That sounds like a lot that I wanna look into that.

 

0:30:19.7 S2: Yeah, I see. But yeah, there's some really a beautiful ones like I've seen birds, my knees got birds, black birds flying up the back of her neck and just little black outlines of birds, really pretty. Yeah, there's all kinds of different styles. People get tribal tattoos. But then there's a lot of controversy around that. Yeah.

 

0:30:39.9 S1: And doing all of that. Yeah, well, the oldest find kid, she's about to turn 19... Sorry, my dogs are going crazy. 'cause somebody told me on the bus or the coming as perfect. And so she's 19 now, she really wants to get a tattoo. So I told her I would go get attach another tattoo with her, so that's great. That again, would be very fun, her dad would be... Yeah, I don't think my husband would be particularly thrilled by this, but you know, not his body, so you know what you're gonna get in a line. Yeah, yeah, I think that is interesting though, but I got my first tattoo in college and my parents were just... Oh my god, my step-dad who was a lover of puns, sent me to to related on stuff and magazines for years. He thought it was the funniest thing. So yeah. But anyways, I toed, so I can put my Mike on out that idea of like... I feel like so often, I hear people who are like, Oh, I really kind of wanted to ask you, but I worry that I would not... I would either change my mind or sort of wish that I'd gotten something else, and I feel like the...

 

0:32:02.7 S1: Unless it is like a Sponge Bob Square Pants situation to anyone who has spoken about, but I feel like the people who I've known who have had that and then I have gone ahead and gotten something anyway, if it was meaningful to them. It was around a marked an occasion or it reminded them of someone that they loved in whatever capacity, I found that people don't regret those even if stylistically they move past it a bit and they're like, Oh, it's five years later, I wouldn't have chosen that exact placement or style. It's still this thing where every time they look at it, it is this reminder of a person or an activity or a milestone that I think... It's like looking at an old picture of yourself and being like, Okay, my hair was weird then, but that was such an amazing day, and I find that really beautiful that there's something about choosing permanence that you're making a promise to your future self no matter what aesthetically changes in my life, I won't regret making a big choice, and I think that's so beautiful, there's something to me about that that is sort of like...

 

0:33:12.2 S1: It's like trusting yourself enough in this moment to bet your future happiness on how much you like something in the moment, and I find that tilting somehow...

 

0:33:24.7 S2: I just love that you met... I just hope that with the proliferation of tattoos among the general populace, because it's always been young people or bikers or whatever it is, the connotations that we've had for tatuus people who were on the fringes of society, now that it's just like hair color, all of a sudden, you have 50, 67-year-olds during or her purple, which I think is fantastic, but 10 years ago, they would have been like laughed at or whatever, but now that's like a thing. Everyone's dying their hair, everyone's getting tattoos, and I love that this medium of self-expression is becoming more and more accepted because what still happens is that people have to cover them up when they go to work in a corporate environment, and I wanna see that go away that's like the last... That's bananas to me. I don't understand it, is that it's like if you have a purple hair and attach to or a tattoo or a piercing or whatever it is, then you are not fit to work in this environment. And I think that's the most ridiculous thing. I think all bodies and choices and style and whatever is not...

 

0:34:31.0 S2: Okay, man, we need to get over. And stuff like that.

 

0:34:34.9 S1: Well, it also, it goes into, I think the proliferation of body modification, tattoos, piercings, a natural hair colors, all that stuff, you can look at it from a space perspective and look at that as a reaction to all of the body judgment that we've had and not just body judgment, but also what your body says about who you are as a person, right? So it is a way to be... The negative connotations that come with things basically, and you still hear it a lot with Fathom and things like that, where people are like, Well, that person is unhealthy, if they would just lose 20 pounds, they would be healthy, and you're like, Oh my God, that was... On it is that I think you can look at it as a backlash to all of that horrible bullshit that we've dealt with for God knows how long is it sort of take... It's like reclaiming the word bitch, you know it is... You're coming back for it and saying, No, this is what this is now.

 

0:35:50.4 S2: Well, this is this whole false notion of normalcy that we've been hunt for centuries or nascent Ries like a century, because we have way more self-expression before our modern agent than we do now, which is kind of a bizarre thing to think of, which only shocks people...

 

0:36:07.0 S1: Yeah, I do you like one modification that the above done through history, a

 

0:36:13.9 S2: Clothing jewelry, all that stuff is at everything... Yeah, everything became like a binary in the last century or so, were like, men do this and only men do this, and we gonna do that, and it's like, yeah, if the closer we get to letting that let go, I think they have Heritage will be... So I'm all for it. I eat

 

0:36:36.4 S1: We need a little joy in our lives, so... Absolutely, and speaking of joy, I used that as my transition, I have something for you guys that may bring you a little day, and that is the guilty pleasure game show. It is a podcast, it's part of the roda network, and it sounds super fun, just like the 90s guilt free pleasure is coming back. I am all through this on this show, authors and co-host Laura lovely and Lindsey Emery was your favorite authors, podcasters and cool creatives about all the things they love, and no one feels bad about any of it sounds like our kind of thing. Come find your next guilty pleasure and the people who will celebrate it with you, you can find this fast and fun, show it your favorite podcast app or at guilty pleasures, game show, dot com.

 

0:37:34.5 S2: Yeah, that sounds really cool.

 

0:37:36.3 S1: Yeah, I am all for that, although I don't think they're guilty pleasure, so I think they're just... Yeah.

 

0:37:43.0 S2: I don't buy guilty in pleasure at the same time... Yeah, yeah.

 

0:37:48.4 S1: Don't judge my chocolate-covered cherries other... For me, so yeah.

 

0:37:55.2 S2: Absolutely, and to have some candy corn now 'cause I have some left from home. Thank you so much for being here with us today. I hope you had a good time. We, ahafo.

 

0:38:08.7 S1: Having new. Women are brilliant.

 

0:38:10.7 S2: I'm a thaksin where people can find you online. I know you were on Twitter 'cause I sockers. I

 

0:38:19.1 S1: Am on Twitter, I've taken a little hiatus for hosting, but on Twitter, I'm at Miller, Ariel, and on Instagram, I'm at mailer on. Jonathan, you so much, and

 

0:38:37.3 S2: I thank you for hanging out with us for another episode of Dear romance writer, you remember to send us your questions, we can't wait to hear from you and give you some of our questionable advice. See you next time. Thank you so much for subscribing to Dear romance writer. Remember to keep something in those letters in dermatitis dot com, we can't wait to tell you what to do.

 

0:39:08.5 S1: Your romance writer is part of the frolic Podcast Network. Find more podcasts you love, framed, podcast.